Lisa and Lauren chat with Ping Ho, MA, MPH the Founder and Director of UCLArts & Healing whose mission is to transform lives through creative expression by integrating the innate benefits of the arts with mental health practices for self-discovery, connection, and empowerment. Listen as they deep dive into the reasons art is such a powerful tool for boundary breaking and bridge building and how we as individuals and a community can use art to connect with ourselves and each other and live well. Check out UCLArts & Healing at https://uclartsandhealing.org/
Learn more about the Take an Art Break Movement on the Art is Moving website here.
Lisa and Lauren chat with Ping Ho, MA, MPH the Founder and Director of UCLArts & Healing whose mission is to transform lives through creative expression by integrating the innate benefits of the arts with mental health practices for self-discovery, connection, and empowerment. Listen as they deep dive into the reasons art is such a powerful tool for boundary breaking and bridge building and how we as individuals and a community can use art to connect with ourselves and each other and live well. Check out UCLArts & Healing at https://uclartsandhealing.org/
Learn more about the Take an Art Break Movement on the Art is Moving website here.
All right. We're live. Hi everyone.
Speaker 2:We're so excited. We're here with ping ho. Who's the, uh, co-funding director of UCLA arts and healing program. So ping introduced yourself and, um, share us your story and your passion for arts and healing.
Speaker 3:Oh, thank you. Yes. Well, so I have a lifetime of personal involvement, um, in performing arts. It's been my mind body sanity, my whole life. And so I came to this work through a curiosity about how others were using this work for, um, wellbeing. And, uh, I always wondered for example, why doctors didn't, uh, use music to help calm their patients when their patients were anxious or waiting for a procedure, for example. And then when I took it acting classes, I always wondered why mental health professionals did not use tools from the acting world to help access emotions, because you can access them instantly with tools that world. And, uh, I soon discovered that there were in fact professionals who were using these tools. They were called creative arts therapists and they were siloed, um, invisible. And, uh, and I decided to showcase them in a lecture series at UCLA to see what would happen. And I found tremendous interest from the public. So, uh, uh, one thing led to an another, and I ended up, uh, collaborating with these individuals to help develop curriculum materials, uh, for the public to empower people in the public to have tools that are accessible and inclusive and sustainable to, uh, offer social, emotional support in the community where needs were not being met. And, uh, and, and of course we know that with the pandemic, the needs of just, uh, escalated. Yeah. And, um, and this is not a replacement for therapy. This is something that I always need to clarify, uh, where our work actually, we don't do therapy that we, so I'm gonna define therapy as identifying and treating disorders. What we do is we try to people how to offer socially and emotionally supportive experiences as a preventive tool, as a way of, uh, enabling a public health safety net for everyone because can be done anywhere in schools and, uh, you know, recreation centers and in healthcare settings. And so it makes, uh, work very, uh, potentially powerful from a public health point of view. Hmm.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, um, speaking about UCLA arts and healing and your involvement with it and your personal path, the question we thought we'd talk about today is sort of what's the relationship between creativity and mental health. And so you, you clarified that it's not about therapy, it's a more of a prevent preventative, um, exercises and activities and lifestyle. And can you elaborate on that a little bit?
Speaker 3:Well, I do wanna clarify that it can be for the, the creative arts therapists do therapy because they're trained in mental health and in the arts and the integration of the two, uh, to, uh, identify and treat disorders as well as to facilitate wellness. And we are just focusing on the piece, our work just focuses on the preventive part, uh, so on the parts that, uh, so it's creative, our, our work is creative arts therapies informed. In other words, we base our work on their work. However, we're only taking the parts that members of the public can use, um, with integrity and without crossing that boundary of therapy. So, um, I would like to share what I've discovered, um, you know, for many years of, it's been hard to describe what is the power of the arts, what is the reason that people should use it? Uh, and, uh, when I first started people look at me like, okay, finally go, I get it now. So I'll start by saying that the arts do have innate mental health benefits, and I will explain how we get, can get off track with that, you know, as a culture, and then what we do to enhance those mental health benefits. So the, some, some innate benefits are ver are very strong. One of them is it gives us a non-verbal pathway for or communication. So, uh, when people are stressed or traumatized or they come from a culture that does discourages self-disclosure to anyone other than family, um, or they have a different ability levels, or maybe they don't speak the same language, then verbal communication becomes difficult. And, um, what the arts do is they enable us to express how we're feeling through channels that still are available to us even when we are stressed or unable to talk for one reason or another. Um, and those channels are there to protect us, for example, um, visual movement and sound auditory channels are available because when we are faced with a crisis, like say, we're being chased by a bear in the woods, we don't wanna stop and talk about it. We just have to get out of there. We need to hear what's going on. We need to see where we're going. And so those channels are still available to us, even when in trauma, for example, that we cannot access our speech center. Um, another thing too, is that arts engage so much of the brain that it quite literally crowds out room for the stress. It calms the body and enables the upper brain, which is the part that makes decisions connects, um, engages in socially constructive ways, solves problems. You know, that whole executive part of the brain can then reengage because it is shut down when the lower part of the brain is protecting us from threats we're in when threat protection mode, um, example in trauma, uh, that puts us in that state where we cannot think clearly and make decisions or engage or connect appropriately. So the arts are very powerful for that. Another thing, um, I, once in integrative medicine conference where positives psychology researcher, Barbara Frederick has F Fredrickson actually stated that the arts are uniquely capable of enhancing positive emotions. And that is the thing that the arts can very quickly, uh, get people from just flat effect or feeling bummed out to ARA of positive emotions. And, uh, and this is empowering because it gives people the sense, a sense of agency and resilience, knowing that there's something they can do to feel better. Um, then we have the strong connection value of the arts that the arts are also, I believe you equally capable of connecting us with others in a very short period of time. So when we hold our expressive writing programs in the community, what we have seen time and time again, is that a room full of strangers can become each other's closest, confidants, less than an hour, which incredible they share things that they've never shared with anyone before only to discover that there's others in the room that have had a similar experience. And when you witness that kind of dynamic you, it, it's hard not to think why doesn't everybody do this everywhere. And, um, we, uh, we had a woman, uh, so I have this anecdote to tell before I get to the fifth sort of, um, element of the arts, that there was a woman who came to a trauma program that we were offering and she looked disheveled and she was, she was thin and her hair was amazing. And she sat like this with her arms cross. And she was with her head down the entire time and she didn't budge. And, um, those are classic signs of trauma. She was dissociating. She really wasn't there. Well, the instructor, I don't think I heard anything you said. And the instructor said, well, you know, you probably heard more than you think you did see what you remember tomorrow morning. So the woman called me the next day and she actually said, okay. So I did remember some of the TA G like moves that we did to kind of represent what we don't want in our lives. And then what we do want in our lives. And I had the presence of mine to do my yoga movement, uh, to ground myself. And I had the presence of mine for the first time in my entire life to hang up on my abusive of husband. So the next week she came back to the next session and she said, she tried to share her personal story with the group and she couldn't speak. There were no, no sound coming out, just tears streaming down her face. And that's also another classic sign of trauma. So the instructor actually held her hands and just encouraged her to breathe and then make a sound through the breath. Wow. Then asked her to walk around the room with her, uh, you know, just to feel the ground under their feet and then asked her to lead in some movements. So we know for, um, from, uh, the work in the creative arts therapies field, that when you're mirroring someone you're, you're being present, and you're also showing empathy because you're following that person that says, I see you, I hear you. I've validated you. So they, they, uh, the instructor followed this woman's hand movements around, and then the woman was able to speak how she was forced to marry her rapist. Um, because of her culture had children by this man and a lifetime of rage. And, uh, and following week, she called me and said, uhoh, I'm feeling feelings. What do I do? And so I, um, what, what makes you feel good? And she said, listening to music. So I encouraged her to do that. And, uh, I don't remember her coming back to the next couple of sessions. However, she came back two months later to a movement program and you wouldn't have known, it was the same woman. She was smiling. She was looking at people, touching people and glowing at her hair was done all nicely. And I contacted a clinical psychologist, uh, who I know very well. And I said, uh, how long does it usually take to get someone from here to there? You know? And, and she said about a year to build that trust relationship and all that. And I dang, this was like, you hardly saw the woman and did it on her own, and it didn't cost her anything to listen to music. And it's not that this is necessarily a magic bullet. However, what I really am trying to say is that it can be so powerful and so accessible. Why not? Why not advocate and use this as a public health tool? Um, it's well not to. And, uh, and so the fifth thing that I wanna point out about the innate benefits of the arts is that, um, the cultural piece, right, we have become aware of cultural disconnection in our society. And, uh, and the arts are culturally accessible. They are capable of embrace seeing cultural differences and transcending them. So you could throw a whole bunch of people together who are of different cultural backgrounds, and they have a shared language in the arts and a shared ability to connect without the stigma of therapy. And, uh, and that's incredibly important at this time, especially in our, in our world. And, uh, and so there's just, I don't see any reason to use, not to use the arts. And so, so cycling back to something Lisa to you and I were talking about earlier is that unfortunately, the way that the arts are taught often, quite often, the arts are a default activity that is defaulted to, uh, teachers in school who have to do it. They weren't necessarily trained in it. And so, um, a lot of the experiences of students when they're having their first arts experiences come with a baggage of self-judgment that
Speaker 1:For sure, and that
Speaker 3:Judgment can happen in really subtle ways. Like, um, my daughter had a teacher who was just lovely and the kids adored her. Uh, unfortunately the teacher put only represented on the wall. So any student who was expressing themselves in more abstract ways, never got their art put up.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Those
Speaker 3:Interpreted themselves as not being artists very early in life. And, um, and so there is many ways in which we stop expressing ourselves creative. And one thing I've noticed when I talk to adult audiences, invariably, when I ask, you know, who has ever said to themself, I can't sing act dance draw or write. And then every hand goes up in the
Speaker 1:Room
Speaker 3:Who knows somebody who does it. And they're not very good at it. They do it anyway because they love it. And every he end goes up and that's earth, right? And unfortunately we stop participating because we've judged ourselves as being not good at it. And, um, and I've noticed this very interesting, uh, phenomenon. I took an arts integration training that was being offered by Los Angeles district. And I chose the upper elementary track. And I noticed that activities that are designed for upper elementary youth are perfect for general Adult. And I thought,
Speaker 1:Why is?
Speaker 3:And then I started thinking about all the self-judgment with me, uh, when I'm working with adults. And I, I have decided that it's because we stop expressing ourselves in upper elementary because that's the developmental age range where we start, um, caring about what other people think. And, uh, and so we're frozen in time at that comfort level when we back to it later, that's where we left off. And that's why activities for upper elementary youth are perfect for the general public adult. So, um, oh,
Speaker 1:That's really interesting. Yeah. I completely agree.
Speaker 3:And then wow. Onto the, uh, issue of, okay, so now we have self-judgment we know the arts are powerful. We have all this self-judgment what about it? And I think this is where our war comes in. Uh, we teach people, for example, nonjudgmental language in talking about art. So typically we fall back and I do this all the time. In fact, we tell people is it's okay to make a verbal mistake, just correct yourself. When you say it of saying good job. I like it. It's beautiful. I, and all these things trying to make the other person feel better. And then there are all these, um, unintended consequences that go with that there's performance, anxiety and the self-judgment and, um, and seeking external validation, you know, and all the things that counterproductive to health. So if we can just simply notice what we see, like literally, like, you know, I could say, um, you know, Lisa, I see a lot of colors on your shirt, you know, I'm curious, I wonder if you could tell me more about that rather than, oh, I really like that. So, you know, non-judgmental language is important and it's especially important. Um, when we consider that many cultures have experienced a lot of judgment, not only, you know, about who they are as individuals. And so they're carrying a lot of negative messaging in their unconscious messaging and that messaging can help. We can help unwind that with neutral non-judgmental language. And, uh, another thing is that synchrony, we talked about, we do a lot of mirroring of, of movement or, and, and synchrony doesn't necessarily mean I'm doing exactly the same thing as you. It can also just mean, um, you know, like the yes, and approach in theater. So in theater, you are not allowed to say no when someone does to you, you need to respond to it, cuz it just happened to you. Um, and then also even just call and response in the drumming world. I hear you, I'm gonna play it back to you. I'm gonna offer something, you play it back to me. And uh, all of those things are, are nonverbal ways of saying or, um, are, uh, alternative ways of saying, I see, I see you. I hear you. I validate you. And it's seen, heard and validated that really is healing. And that is really ultimately what we're trying to do in the arts world for wellbeing is enable people to be seen, heard and validated. Wow.
Speaker 1:Yes. I
Speaker 2:Well said
Speaker 3:One other piece, you know, there's core piece of that, which is, um, the reflection and sharing that, reflecting on what we have experienced or created, um, as a metaphor for life is where the, where the lessons come, where the life lessons come and the connection with others can really deepen. We can deepen the dialogue. And um, and then, and the final, additional sort of core tool that we use is having some safety measures in place because, um, reactivity can trigger memories and feelings and being prepared to address that with, you know, simple methods of how, how you help people feel calm. Uh what's what's the next step you do? I've had, um, actors, uh, come tell me that when they do performances for children in schools, that sometimes students will come up to them and say, that happens to me and they don't know what to do or what to say Or those moments when those things happen is the other, you know, another piece of what we do to try to,
Speaker 1:It feels, it feels to me like it's, um, I mean, Lisa says this a lot. It's a bridge, right? It's so you're, you're creating this, this bridge for people individually within themselves, right. To find their way across, back to who they were. Really, if you're talking about adults and then you're finding a bridge for people to connect with each other, and then you're finding a bridge for people like performers and teachers, educators, to connect with people in a way that's productive. Um, because art can, because I'm, you know, art is this, this boundary breaker. Right? Super. But like you said, when you break a boundary, everything has changed. And so you can't, you can't really go back and you, but we leave people there a lot and we don't help them move forward. And I love that you're adding that additional, you call them safety measures to help people. Okay. So I hear you, right. I see you. I hear you. I validate you. And here's what we can do next. I'm I'm not the person to talk to you, but I can tell you who to seek next. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 3:I love that. That's great. Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Cause that that's really how it works. Right. It's really, we're all, it's all holistic. It's not like a bunch of pieces ran. You know, we do feel like a bunch of pieces randomly scattered, but we all are actually connected and everything we do is connected. So why not connect them as opposed to separating them? Absolutely.
Speaker 3:That connection piece is the, the link to the public health value of the arts as a mental health. Um, I of often use this as an example, that disconnection is at the core of many public health problems that are intractable. We have not been able to find effective ways of addressing things like trauma, loneliness, intolerance, chronic pain, end of life care issues. And now we have social isolation and all of those have disconnection at their core. So, so any tool they connect people, um, easily and powerfully is a tool that really should be applied to those areas. Those areas of need. And this is where the arts can be so very powerful. And, uh, this is why I predict that the arts will be the next, uh, major healing practice to be adopted by the public owing, to their unique ability to address things that other modalities have had a difficult time addressing.
Speaker 2:Wow, I love it. What, I'm, what I'm getting, it's so much, you've shared so much and it's amazing, but really it's a disconnection to our primal. So almost yes. And then also it's almost like we, we arrive like this, you know, expressive being, and then we get paralyzed. And then in another stage we're like, where am I? I'm disconnected. I'm feeling lonely. And art is like the superpower in it all. And it's so it's so easy to do, right? It's not like a yeah, very fast.
Speaker 3:It's easy to do and anyone can learn how to facilitate it in a socially, emotionally supportive way.
Speaker 1:So I'm speaking of like, I, cuz I'm really thinking about this whole, we live in this web and it's holistic its stuff. I think about all the time. And you have pinpoint point pinpointed when, uh, this occurs in terms of it's the upper elementary age. So what could we do? What could we do as a society so that we don't en enter this para paralyzing state and then the, who am I state where we can continue to, what do we need to do as a society, um, as an educational system, as an individual to, to stop that from happening?
Speaker 3:Yes. Well I think the internet is, is super helpful in this regard because until we started using zoom, for example, as a, for education, it was more difficult for people to get the education that they need. So this podcast, for example, is super helpful, short bits of information that, um, teachers are literally starving for ways to help their students. And I, I tend to focus on schools in my work because that's where we can have a large public health impact. Start young, start with professional development for teachers, give them tools that will help them connect and then lead them to other information on how they can deepen their connection with students through the arts. And I think, uh, you know, and then exposing Stu and then that way the students will get the benefit of that practice. And I think students are also can of learning nonjudgmental language and that this can actually also empower and change the environment of learning to, uh, encourage more engagement and uh, and all of these things are what teachers want. So if you start with what people want, then it will be adopted pretty quickly because, um, there's this new, um, theory called diffusion of innovations theory that says that information is passed more quickly from near peers than it is even through scientific evidence. And so all it takes is a few, uh, people who've seen the light, you know, and then they start telling others, you know, this worked for me and it spreads. And, and I can tell because from the time I set foot in this pond in 2004 up till now the number of requests we get from the outside world, especially from educators has skyrocketed.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. I, I can definitely relate to that because ever since, uh, you know, the pandemic has changed things quite substantially, like you mentioned before, and that Lisa and I have noticed that people are more, maybe they are, maybe it's a little desperation, I'm not sure, but they're more willing to give this to try to scribble scribble on paper because man I've tried everything else. So I might as well try this, you know? Yes. And
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Yeah. Yes. The, the, the time is in our favor right now. I think people are open and the needs are obvious. Now, you know, for many years we've had trauma. Nobody really was aware of it. Now I think it's become, you say the word trauma and people get what that means.
Speaker 2:Why, why do you think there was a shift? I love the shift, but why do you think, I mean, I know in COVID times we were all, we were all inside. You know what I mean, inside ourselves and inside, um, you know, lockdowns. So why do you, why do you feel the shift?
Speaker 3:You know, it started happening. It was happening already before COVID because, and I'm actually not a hundred percent sure how it happened. I think it, it maybe got to the point of a critical mass of people who, and so, and with the social media and people there was more open about it. I think it's, it's mental health issues have always been kind of a shameful thing that you didn't wanna talk about. And then, you know, with the me too movement, I think all of a sudden there became a willingness to just confront it and share about it and then it, and, and now it's in our public awareness. Maybe the me too was really kind of what in the high gear.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think the power, um, of sharing your story, like you talked about rather than this, this idea that you keep things within a family. I think that's a, a really, that one seems to be breaking wide open. And if I can give credit to social media for something pop, it would be that it would be people sort of, because then perhaps it's because it's semi-anonymous to share your story, right? You're not sitting across from someone and saying, well, this happened to me. And you're also hearing from thousands of people instead of one at a time. And so that somewhat affirmation that we need to feel comfort with our experiences is given to us more quickly. And so I think that has a lot to do with it. I think that we, as time goes on, things change and people become more comfortable with things. I think younger generations, uh, are more comfortable with talking about their emotions. Um, I don't think that people feel like you have to be quiet about them as much anymore, and that they're not something that your anger and your rage and your sadness and your depression is not something that you need to hide or that something that's wrong. Um, you know, um, we have our friend Todd who works at LinkedIn and they say, bring your whole self to work. And I think, I think that's amazing for such a, for that's what we want. And I think we're moving in that direction. Um, and I think that that's why you'll see the arts more integrated in people's daily lives, which I'm super excited about cuz, uh, Lisa and I've been imagining a like that for a very long time and, and how powerful that would be if, if arts were sort of sewn into the social fabrics of our everyday being, it would be, it'd be amazing.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. And then on top of that, to be able to know that we can do something to help ourselves, you know, so often we, we think of, uh, when people have a mental health challenge, um, they feel alone and don't know where to go. And unfortunately our mental health system is so broken. Um, we, I don't know who to refer people to because I don't know if that person's going to be the right fit, you know? So on top of everything else, even if you do have access, you don't know if it's the right match for someone. And um, so it's a beautiful idea to be able to have tools you can use yourself or that you can use with your community or your classroom or, um, you know, to make it more accessible for everybody.
Speaker 1:I, I love that. I love
Speaker 2:That. So lastly, um, talk about the expressive therapy summit, um, that you created
Speaker 3:That you're gonna be involved in. I know. So, uh, I can't take full credit for that. Um, I can take partial credit for the Los Angeles version. So, uh, Barry Cohen founded the expressive therapy summit, um, 10 or so years ago and, uh, a mutual colleague introduced us and, uh, we talked on the phone for four years. I said, Barry, would you be willing to do it out here? And four years later we decided, okay, let's go for it. Let's see if there's a demand for it on the west side. And now we're going, we're entering our fifth year and it's all virtual this year. So anyone can participate from anywhere. And I did also wanna say that I'm, I've discovered that the arts can very powerfully be delivered in a virtual setting. Yes. You know, of course, yes, we do lose a little something, however, it's still valuable. And that there's that benefit of being a little anonymous like Lauren was saying earlier that, um, people can, if they're having a really hard time, they can turn off the camera. So it gives people a little bit of privacy, uh, for patient. So this summit is gonna have like, you know, a hundred workshops, uh, or a hundred plus workshops, all different art forms, addressing all different age groups, populations, um, things for wellbeing like mindfulness and things. On the other hand for, you know, therapists who are working with client who have anger issues, whatever it is, it's a full spectrum of arts experiences and the very best way for anyone to understand this work is to experience it. And I think that ultimately, uh, Lauren, earlier you asked hand, how, what can we do about this issue of self-judgment? And that is offer experience is I think people experience it and they witness what happens in the room. Uh, even in a virtual room when people have a shared creative experience, then they get it. And, uh, 20th century educator, uh, pare, uh, once said that, uh, shared creative experiences, deepen possibilities for, um, uh, connection for dial meaningful dialogue and social action. And he was a real of shared creative experiences. So I think having that experience and that's the, uh, summit is coming up, it's, uh, coming up next weekend and, uh, it's gonna be four days and then it's going to, uh, come are another four days in April and yet another four days in April. So, so you have three long weekends, uh, with little breaks in between to participate and find something meaningful for you to use.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Awesome. We'll put, yeah, we'll definitely include links in all the descriptions for all the different places. We put this thing for people to check it out. Um, I wanna say thank you for taking the time. Thank you. That was, uh, such a lovely conversation. One of
Speaker 3:These and that is we have a free monthly series too. Oh, it's called hope series healing online for people everywhere, which we started at the beginning of the pandemic and we have two sessions coming up, one on, uh, our social versus our self identity through mask making. And then one on, um, on, uh, diversity on, um, let's see, what is this? It's uh, claiming something like claiming social justice. Anyway, it's using art to advocate for social justice. And so we, we invite people to come on a monthly basis, uh, to, for free and then they're recorded and they can be viewed afterwards, just like these podcasts are, uh, for, um, access, increasing access.
Speaker 2:I love it. It's like the why not experience it, experience it. Why not?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I love that. Awesome. Okay. Well everybody check it out. Find what works for you. And we I'll talk to y'all again soon. Thanks.