How did painting save your life?

Lisa and Lauren chat with Noelle Imparato about how painting saved her life and her upcoming book that explains that process and provides insight into how creativity can help quiet your ego so you can have an honest conversation with yourself. Connect with Noelle and learn more about Painting For Life by emailing her at: noelleimparato@gmail.com 

Transcript

Lauren: 0:01

Hello, everybody.

Lisa: 0:02

We're back. We're here. We are really excited about our conversation today. We are with Noel. Um, Noel, can you introduce yourself and tell our audience who you are and, and why you do what you do?

Noelle: 0:14

Okay. Oh, hi everybody. And thank you, lo and Lisa for, uh, having me here tonight. I'm really happy about that. Um, I am NoeNoelll parato and, uh, I'm a little bit of a Renaissance woman. You might say. I stopped, uh, studying architecture and then film, and then I I'm born in France, but then I went to Hollywood. I worked there for a while and I had all in my mind, some kinda a life you might say that, uh, I wanted to do something to wake up people, you know, spiritually wake up people because I had seen some documentary on television of window and it had such an impact on me when I was 15 years old that I thought, well, I really would like to be able to, I mean, I'm not pretending to bere, but I would like to do something that has an impact on people. And so I was not really able to do what I wanted with film. So then somehow I landed into, uh, a therapy or processor because it's not a therapy for people with really critically mental problems. It's more like coaching, you know, it's more for people who want to improve themselves, uh, to want to, uh, self transform and wake up spiritually clean up psychologically, you know, and then also create, um, community and with the pandemic, uh, amazingly enough, you know, it's sort of a worked out for us because, uh, at first I was thinking like, how can I do thinking on zoom? You know, mm-hmm<affirmative> and, but it turned out the workshop that I lead, um, basically is very grounded in zoom sharing or in sharing, I should say. And, uh, we have a half hour sharing at the top and then painting who people, uh, go at home and do that, uh, on their own. And then we have another half hour at the ending where they share. So it all worked out that created some kind of a community that has been with me now for over two years. And it has given us a chance to really build up on, uh, more than what I was doing before and use the group community and what I discovered they call the we space and really kind of develop that aspect.

Lisa: 2:52

Hmm.

Lauren: 2:53

Yeah. So, um, you let, uh, Lisa, I have a sneak peek at your, um, your book painting for life and it's, um, 40 portraits and sort of divided into chapters and it feels like a memoir it's like memoir critique story timeline, and we got a chance to read it. It was amazing. Thank you for that opportunity. Mm-hmm,<affirmative> it, it sparked the question that we wanna ask you today, uh, which is how did painting save your life?

Noelle: 3:28

Well, painting came at a later time in my life. As I say, even though as a architect student, uh, I had learned how to draw and I always loved art and painting a little bit, but I never really had the inspiration, the discipline or anything to do that. And then by discovering this approach to painting that, uh, I actually learned at the SLM Institute in big south California mm-hmm<affirmative> and, um, it was a painting approach where you don't know what you are going to do. You are not doing a product. Actually the, the teacher Michel Kasu was always telling us the product is none of your business.<laugh>. I like that. That was very much against all the, the kind of a teaching that they give you in school. And what I discovered with that is like, you can't have no inspiration because basically you are working from your present moment, emotional states and emotional memories and thinking and all that, that stuff. But even as you go through the memories, it's always about being present in the very moment and seeing the transformation of the images and following with it in a very natural, spontaneous way. And what happened is that, Hey, I was able to sort of have a tic experience, you know, which is the first thing everybody has when they want to paint without restraint. And I realized how much anger I was still carrying Because my childhood, um, we might not want to get too heavy into that, but I had a lot of anger against my mother, especially. And I mean, I'm pretty positive, kind of a person. I laugh a lot. Everybody think I'm not very happy and everything, but this anger was still there and then think allowed me to reconnect with it. And just that in itself is healing. And then it also, the technique allowed me to sort of work with it so that, uh, I can go beneath it. I can see that even until such anger, you might say there was love and painting actually painted themselves. You know, it's not me who decided to do this or that, it just kind of came up. And then I look at the painting and I see how I transformed during the painting and my wage at the end of like, uh, took me like that first painting took me like two, two or three days to do, you know, and we were working three sessions a day every day. And so it was very intense work, but I started with a lot of anger and I ended up with grace,

Lisa: 6:43

Grace. Wow. Grace.

Noelle: 6:45

Yeah. A fabulous experience where, yeah, I felt like I had warm<affirmative><inaudible> honey running down my spine.<laugh>

Lisa: 6:56

Oh, I love that visualization. What I, what I'm hearing is that, um, this process is you're really playing or dancing with your subconscious, right? Mm. And so how do you do that? Because we're such, we're so trained and condition not to dance with our subconscious, you know what I mean? What, what is, how did you do that? You know,

Noelle: 7:18

Well, perhaps, uh, what helped me to be able to do that? I think there are probably many different factors, but for me personally, there was a, I was already 40 years old or something like that when I discovered this approach to painting. And I was a point in my life where I was ready to feel like, okay, you know, enough of that track, you know, I need to change. Right. So there was a strong intention in changing and transforming, and that was, uh, sort of supported on top of it because I quit my work in Hollywood. And I enrolled that Pacifica graduate Institute, you know, uh, to, in a department of, uh, mythology and depth psychology. So we were Gul very heavily into Carl Young psychology and the Carl Young sort of, um, process, you know, of a shadow work, the idea of shadow work, and then the idea of the archetype, the myth and how psyche is image, you know? And so I was writing my dissertation about the family crisis, you know, and seeing it from the mythological sort of point of view. So I was sort of immersed into a lot stories, a lot of theories, a lot of personal research. And, uh, then when I, I did, when I went to SN I didn't know even what to expect, I had a weak ion and I looked at their catalog and I said, uh, okay. Out of the five, uh, workshop they present every week, I thought, oh, well, that sounds like fun. You know, but then when I got there, so seven day workshop, you know, very intense at the end, I was like, so transformed. So, and, uh, you know, absolutely ecstatic about the process. And so I just decided right away, this is for me,

Lauren: 9:29

Love it, love it. Yeah. So, um, through, throughout your book, there's a, you know, you, you dive extremely deep into your own personal story and are very open it's. Um, it's clear that you've done, you know, that dive deep work and that the painting is almost talking to you, as you're talking about the painting and talking back and forth, and you talk about, um, you mentioned something called like that, you know, you have to know yourself in order to go through that personal transformation and, and, um, and come back in a positive way. And that also leads to this, um, um, idea of social transformation that we can transform as a society. Can you elaborate on that a little bit? Um, for us, I found that really interesting,

Noelle: 10:21

Oh, transforming as a society. Uh, well, you know, uh, also I'm, uh, very much, uh, grounded in Buddhist, uh, meditation and Buddhist, the theory or wisdom. And so the idea, basically every time I do a workshop, I always end up by having a big virtual hug. Now, you know, that when we do it in the studio, we are always having a big group hug and we say, may all beings be happy? And I always introduce that for the beginners is the idea that when you heal yourself, you heal the world mm-hmm<affirmative>. And, you know, there is probably more than one way to look at that statement, but at the deep root, I would say, it's the idea that we are not separated. We are so connected with each other that even at the nano level, you know, whatever you do makes a difference for good or for bad. So if you do it for good, if you self transform a, you probably see around you, you know, you have a different influence around the people that, uh, you are in contact with. And then at the deeper level, you know, I believe, you know, maybe the soul level you might say, or the spirit level, you know, you might be just a little drop in the ocean, but like the Chinese say, you know, the bucket is getting fulled up by 12.

Lisa: 11:59

I love that. I love that. Yeah. It makes me think of like, if, if we're all a system, if one, one part of the system's broken, the system doesn't work and we're not in harmony. Right. And so, you know, when you heal yourself, you're creating harmony within the system itself.

Noelle: 12:16

Yeah. And you know, this directly, I think, uh, perhaps, uh, with my family, for instance, you know, uh, for me to go through this entire process of, uh, trying to clear out, uh, the past, you know, it allows me to be able to look at my sisters and even the one who did things that, uh, were not very nice to me. Uh, I don't want to carry those, uh, you know, bad feeling to my tune. So I'm trying, even to this day, like I'm going to go to France, you know, in next week. And, uh, I'm planning to spend a week with the sister, which she wasn't too sure. She wanted to spend a week

Lisa: 13:03

<laugh>

Noelle: 13:04

And, uh, she never talked to the other one for like, I don't know how long they have a very bad fight between the two of them. And, but because I will be there, she agreed to also be there with the other one.

Lisa: 13:18

Oh, wow.

Noelle: 13:19

Wow. Have,

Lauren: 13:20

Have you ever tried to make art with them? Have you all ever made art together?

Noelle: 13:27

Oh, no.

Lisa: 13:28

<laugh>

Noelle: 13:32

No, I wish I could, you know, I have a, I have a friend, um, who is a bit in the same situation. She comes from a big family. Like we were nine children. She comes from 17.

Lauren: 13:45

Wow. Oh, wow.

Noelle: 13:46

Yeah. And, but she's from California and, you know, they are from a very, um, I wouldn't say poor, but, uh, kind of a, you know, not very well off, uh, family and, uh, they never went much to school. Most of them she's the only one, you know, at my friend is I met her at Pacifica. So she took a, she got a PhD, but she's the only one in her family. And then she wrote a book kind of like similar to what I'm doing, but then she describes how she had all her sister gather together in big Sur out of all places. And they did like ceremonies, like new age ceremony. You might say, you know, sharing stories. And, uh, but I mean, I told her, oh my God, you were to do with your family. You know, I couldn't even think anything like this. I tried, uh, the best I did was to organize some, uh, group, uh, I mean, family gathering of all the siblings around the dining table without wine.<laugh>,

Lisa: 14:57

<laugh> funny

Noelle: 15:01

And discuss what we had to discuss. And I brought with me an Eagle feather,

Lisa: 15:07

Oh.

Noelle: 15:08

And I presented it like, you know, this is the talking stick,<laugh>

Lisa: 15:13

Uhhuh Uhhuh.

Noelle: 15:14

And we each listened to each other. And the one who has the talking stick is the only one who can speak, you know? So we did that twice, two, two years in row. And those, those meetings were the only meetings we ever had where people were able to, to speak and listen to each other in a civilized way.

Lisa: 15:38

<laugh> right. I love that. What it brings. I love this quote from your, from your book. It says my story, it is also my truth. It is a gift to the world. Can you talk about that? My story is my truth and it is the gift to the world. And how can, how can other people share their story and be it a gift to the world?

Noelle: 15:57

Yeah, well, um, it was first a gift to me because, uh, to paint and, and, uh, in this manner, you know, allowed me to really, uh, clear up a lot of the bad feelings. Uh, did, I certainly allowed me to do a big job in terms of, uh, cleaning up the shadow. You might say mm-hmm<affirmative> and, uh, allow, as I went through, you may have noticed that, uh, two, the end of those 15 years, that the book cover, you know, I was able to go into the studio and, uh, come from a place of, uh, higher state of mind, not, you know, you don't, the shadow is good, but also reaching the light is also in book. So it, it, it helped me a lot, you know, and I think that, um, telling my story in detail and very honestly, and with, uh, as much integrity as I could, Mr. I think it helps also because, uh, a lot of the trouble with these, uh, shadow mm-hmm<affirmative> is that is as its name is, uh, telling you it's like, it stays in the back, you know, mm-hmm,<affirmative>, it always stays out of mind, out of sight. And of course it carries all the shame, all the difficult aspect of who we are that we don't really like to recognize, uh, you know, very easily. We prefer to think about ourself as some kind of a white Knight, but, uh, E even though we don't talk about it, think about it, or even recognize it. Or in my case, I have a story where it was completely erased from my memory where those materials are still in our subconscious, and they still, we don't know about them, but they know about us. They actually make us, they actually, the one who are, uh, triggering us, you know, and then when we come home at night and we are like, Hmm, why did I say this to this person in this condition? You know, that's really, wasn't too smart, you know, but you just, you just kind of elaborate it out without thinking mm-hmm<affirmative> and, and, you know, that's where it comes from you. You might wonder why did I do it? But then that was that part of you, that's kind of in the subconscious into darkness and it works. It makes you work, you know, it push you to do things. You don't know why you are doing it. So clearing out the darkness and bringing it to light is, um, a very healthy work to do psychologically mm-hmm<affirmative>. And because it clears up your sleep, then you have a more peaceful, mind, more open to be able to, to go deeper, not just into that shallow subconsciousness, but into deep to nature of who you are. Mm,

Speaker 4: 19:08

Nice.

Lauren: 19:09

So, um, for someone who can't get themselves to a workshop, big Sur, maybe they're not ready for that, or they just can't. Um, is there something that they could do at home, um, you know, to start those small steps towards this kind of work that you're talking about, would you have any suggestions for folks like that?

Noelle: 19:30

Well, yeah. Uh, actually, that's why I'm writing a second book. The first one being, you know, just, uh, my story and how it works. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and, um, what I went through. So I tried to, uh, I, with the story with some kind of a principle, but, uh, the second book is, uh, the method, you know, so after writing my own book and after, uh, having, uh, led, um, many year the led, uh, many years of a workshop, it has evolved. It has become a little bit more complex. Uh, it's very open kind of a thing, you know, you can, it, it depends on, on who is leading the workshop, so you can integrate a lot of different technique and you can, you can never do it all at once. So you can choose and you have to be in kind of a sync with your audience, you know, your participants. So you don't talk about something that they are not interested, you know, so it also, depending on who you are, or having as a participant will dictate a little bit what kind of workshop you have, but I'm trying to cover, uh, at least eight or nine different, uh, method. You might say, you know, different tools, different technique, different approach, and to make them more clear or more understandable so that people, if they read both book, you know, the first one I think is kind of, uh, exciting because it's just a story mostly. And then the second one is more like a practical, how to a workbook. And then if you really go through that, you learn a lot of different things. And then depending who you are, you are going to be able to put them into practice or not.

Lisa: 21:27

What I've, what I've noticed is may I might be wrong, but a lot of the promise or the premise of, or the process of this work is painting and then writing on about it. So the process, right?

Noelle: 21:40

Yeah. Yeah. I believe, uh, both together working better because that's what happened with me. I did the painting for a long time. And then when I spent like three years to write the book, it forced me to re-look at the painting. And then when I was comparing them, when I was also digging into what is that all about? You know, then I, I kind of, uh, fleshed out. But what I realized is that the painting way of telling things, that I was not sure I was what I was doing, what I was actually painting them. And unless I spent time after looking at them and kind of pondering about it, you know, it's not going to reveal all of its, uh, information unless you take the time to, to think about it. And for me, the best way to think about it is to, to write the white in your journal, for instance, and listen to the painting. Because if you really go deep into the subconscious, when you paint, that's a good thing about painting also, because you know, you don't have to have the words up in the top of your mind, you know, mm-hmm,<affirmative>, you don't really know exactly what you are doing, and it's a lot, it's coming more spontaneously from the subconscious. And that's why we use things like, uh, temporary paint and, uh, poster birds. And, you know, this admonition, you know, the product is none of your business because these free you completely from being worried about wasting an expensive car, so expensive things, you know, and making sure you do something that you can show to your mom, you know, mm-hmm,<affirmative> like refrigerator better to put it underneath your bed. You know, because this at first is very private and within the workshop, everybody is sort of stimulating each other. You know, let's say somebody's going through a divorce or whatever, something kinda very difficult, and they are sharing about what they're going through. Well, you may not be going through a divorce, but maybe you have some difficulty with your partner and listening to somebody and seeing that that person is able to actually voice it loud, you know, and it, with others, that alone sort of gives you the confidence and also wake you up like, oh, oh, but you know, I can feel that I'm going actually through something very similar. So it wakes you up. It gives you permission to accept whatever is going on within yourself. And you are not all that different. So that's what happened when I went to, um, uh, to, to, you know, to Edan because, um, that was way back in, in, in the nineties, early nineties and late nineties. Um, anyway, I am French coming from, you know, very age where, of vari age, square background, you might say, uh, bringing Catholic and blah, blah, blah. So I am a, I have a certain restriction, you know, sort of built in and here I was, you know, which was the granddaddy of all those, uh, self, uh, transformation center, that stuff, you know, with, um, uh, everybody naked on LSG basically. Uh, so those women around me, like we were a group of 20 people. So it was a pretty big group. And there were men and women, but the majority of women and they were doing painting, like, uh, we were not walk looking at each other during the session, but in between session, we could walk around the room and I was looking at their painting and I was like, oh my God,<laugh> wow. I can do that. I think I can do it too. You know, it just gave me permission. Mm.

Lauren: 26:04

Yeah. It sounds like, um, it sounds like from I'm, I'm thinking back to all the conversations we've had about people who have, uh, kind of discovered how art can be a personal, positive transformation tool. And a lot of it feels like you have to be in a certain place and time in your life, and then it's like you, something opens up and then you, then you, then you discover this art and for you it's it's um, was painting, but it sounds like it was like, it's like painting op almost opens up the part of your brain that can then come back and find the, the words to describe and go through the process of almost talking about trauma to yourself and then to other people. And it's like this it's, I don't, I don't wanna use the word middleman, but it almost is. It's like this middleman that exists inside of you, that just needs to come out in order for you to have that conversation with yourself.

Noelle: 27:07

Oh, um, well that's one way I are supposed to look at it. I don't know if I look at it that way. I look at it more like, uh, thinking, you know, when you are into toxic talk therapy, you are thinking and thinking is coming from your thinking mind, you know, which is basically what the neuroscientist now called, uh, your default mode of operation, you know, which is the thinking mind that we are using, you know, dinner daily life. And what they have also discovered is that if you quiet down that thinking mind, you know, instead of being very active, for whatever reason, you quiet it down, then there are other circuitry in the brain that kicked in. And those are the one where you are more like at one with everything and where your ego is no longer at the wheel. You might, you know, I might still be hanging around somewhere, but it's not driving the way you think and the way you act. So when the, the painting it's like the, uh, creative activity, it could be another kind of, uh, art. But for me, painting is the white way. Music'm totally not good with music, but I think musicians are experiencing the same thing, you know, is when you, uh, go into the creative mind, that's what it does. You know, it's sort of automatically wired down that, uh, default mode of operation, which is basically the place driven by the ego mm-hmm<affirmative>. So that sort of goes to silence. And then another part, which is a lot more, uh, the part that, uh, you know, where the mystical experiences may happen. So now mystical experience is no longer some kind of woo woo stuff. You know,<laugh>, mm-hmm,<affirmative>, it's very scientific. It's like, okay, it's when you relax your ego, then you have a higher state of mind that just kicks in and who wouldn't want that. You don't have to go to shine, laugh, or that, you know, it's right there, right here, where you are.

Lisa: 29:38

Yeah. That's amazing. Everything's inside of us, right? Yeah. And we just have to, I love it. I, I just, a lot of visuals are coming to me. It's like a dark quiet space that you tap into the flow of all reality. Right. So it's cool.

Noelle: 29:53

Yeah. I,

Lauren: 29:55

I love it. Well, thanks for taking some time to chat with us about your own experience. And, um, I look forward to when, uh, your book is officially launched, let us know, and we'll let everybody else know and all that stuff.

Lisa: 30:09

And if you wanna, yeah. Thank you. And if, um, we'll, if you wanna contact Noel for more information or to join our workshop, we'll have that link below. So

Lauren: 30:18

Yeah. Think you want. Thanks. Thanks everyone.

Noelle: 30:21

And Lisa, that was really fun. I really appreciate being on your podcast.

Lisa: 30:25

Oh, thank you. All.