How can art help you work through anger?

Anger has been on the rise for the last several years. Erica Curtis, LMFT, ATR-BC noticed this in her own community and her own research. Knowing that she can people manage anger, she felt as though that maybe there are other things we need to do with anger - express it, harness it, soothe it, have a conversation with it and so much more. Check out her recent book, "Working Through Anger Creatively," that inspired this conversation. Check out the book and more from Erica at https://therapywitherica.com/books-articles/

Transcript

Lisa: 0:02

<silence> Hello, this is Lisa and Lauren from Artist Moving . We're really, really excited today. We have Erica Curtis with us. Erica , introduce yourself and who you are and why are you here? <laugh>

Erica: 0:13

It's good to be here with both of you. So I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. I'm also a board certified art therapist, and I do a lot of speaking. I have a private practice where I work with clients, and I'm also an author. And I know that you both were interested in my recent book called Working with Anger Creatively. So I think we're gonna dig into that a little bit today. Yeah,

Lauren: 0:37

Yeah. Let's jump off the question of , um, how can art help you work through anger? Because , um, when we saw your new book, we were just like, oh, what a question that everybody probably needs to think about a little bit more. Right, right,

Erica: 0:51

Right. Absolutely. Well, so I mean , I could , I could spend hours on this one question, but I mean, you know , I was thinking about this and in a nutshell, I think two things really stand out to me. You know, one is there's a lot of inherent qualities, just natural qualities that art and art making has. And one of them is that it's naturally expressive, but it's also naturally containing. And anger is one of those emotions that's particularly volatile. And I don't just mean eruptive, it can also shut us down. So it could take us either direction, right? That energy can build up really fast, right? Or we can collapse and sort of, you know, put the cap on it and then numb it, but then it's underneath the surface, but we're not feeling it. Right? And then it can come out in these little ways. And so anger really needs a lot of space, both for expression, right? Safe expression, but also a lot of containment. So what I mean by that is, I mean, I think it's intuitive that art is expressive. We're expressing ourselves, we're taking something from within ourselves and putting it outside of ourselves, right? But the materials and the prompts that we use to create that are, are also restrictive. They're limiting. And so even like the size of a piece of paper, for example, right? We can compare a post-it note versus a piece of paper versus butcher, butcher paper. Butcher paper's gonna give us a lot more space for expression, but maybe we need to rein it in and have a little bit more containment, right? And even the materials that we choose, so markers and pencils, for example, are going to be much more restrictive or limiting in our expressive than wet paint, for example, which can get a lot messier. And so there's these inherent qualities within the arts that I think really lend itself for people to explore where they are personally at, with how they feel and connect with and express their anger. Do they need more space for expression? Do they need more containment? And we can really kind of play in that area with, with the arts.

Lisa: 2:53

Mm-Hmm , <affirmative> , that's so interesting. There's two questions that come up for me. Um, uh, one is like, why did you venture into this anger management tool with art <laugh>? Yes . And then number two is like how I know you , you , we should all go to a therapist if we need to, you know what I mean? Right . Because it's, it's a great guide. It's a great, you know, guidance. But what if you do it by yourself? How can you know? Do you need to be contained? Yes . Or do you need to express Anyways ,

Erica: 3:22

Two questions. Yes . Those are both great questions. So why, so why anger? So, you know, interestingly, actually I'll just share personally, anger and anger management has never been an interest of mine. <laugh> , I'm a very , like, fairly conflict avoidant person. My nervous system airs on the side of like, Nope, I'm not angry, I'm fine. Right? Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . And so I have a history of not really having a very , um, uh, elaborate relationship with my own anger, <laugh> , I would say , or variations of it, right? In my nervous system. I'm just saying like, oh , no , let's just be friends, right? <laugh> . And , and so I've never had interest, but in the last several years, and we were actually chatting a little bit about this before we started recording , um, I've been seeing a lot more anger in a lot of different ways. And it's sort of peaked my curiosity. Yes . Because I tend to be anger avoidant. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . I thought, okay, Erica , here's a, here's a challenge point for you, right? Like, this is a need. And so how can I not just help people more with their anger, but how can I start to relate to anger differently and help other people relate to their anger differently as well? Um, I was looking at Gallup polls and the World Economic Forum, and all of these polls, both nationally and internationally, did indeed confirm that people report feeling angrier more often, more intensely. And that was even before 2020. So anger's really been on the rise. You know, I go into, into businesses and I see signs now that say, please be nice to our workers. Aggression will not be tolerated. And I was just thinking like, what is going on <laugh> , right? And so I got really curious about not just what's happening in terms of people's anger, but how can I provide, given my tools and my knowledge, my background as an art therapist, some alternative ways to becoming aware of anger. And one of those was really expanding outside of the, the concept of anger management, right? And so I started looking into what's available out there, and this idea of, I mean , a lot of book titles are, you know, about controlling your anger or managing your anger. Yeah. And I thought, well, gosh, managing people's anger is what I've been doing this whole time. Like, I can, if anger comes up, I can manage it. I can make sure that it doesn't go too far and we can calm that baby down, right? But then I started thinking, well, maybe we need to harness it. Maybe we need to redirect it. Maybe we need to actually , um, wake it up, right ? Like , have a conversation . Exactly. Have a conversation with it. Sometimes we need to soothe it. So I think that's the other way that art can really help people, is to start to develop their own relationship with anger. Some of that's through personal imagery, right? So instead of relying on monsters and volcanoes and ticking time bombs and all of this like prefab metaphor that society gives us mm-Hmm . <affirmative> to start by asking ourselves, what does my anger look like? Or my frustration or annoyance or whatever, you know, fill in the blank with your own word. What does my own frustration ex , you know, experience of frustration look like? And then how do I wanna relate to that based off of its needs? And I think that informs your second question a little bit, Lisa, which is, how do I know if I need more expression? How do I know if I need more containment? Well, if there's, you know, a lot coming out, then maybe that anger needs a little bit more containment, right? Maybe we just need to play around with what does that feel like if your anger tends to be more eruptive right then , and you feel your anger big and strong and it's, or it feels really scary. So the other thing is, if you don't feel your anger, but it feels so scary to start to come into touch with it, then we want more containment. We want smaller paper, we want more restrictive types of materials like markers or pencils. Right? But if you feel like, you know, I need , I'm, I'm not saying something, I've not been in touch with my anger and it feels safe to connect with it. Right? Or I can feel it and tolerate it, and that's fine, then maybe I'm gonna give myself or my clients a little bit more space to explore what their anger looks like , uh, and feels like to them.

Lauren: 7:41

Yeah . So , um, I , I love the fact that you're touching on this notion that anger is this, this very predictable thing where it's just someone just explodes. Um , mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , because I know, I know several people who do the shutdown right ? Thing, and then it comes out as like passive aggressiveness and , um, things of that nature. And I don't think most people would, would sort of pinpoint that as being anger. Um, right . And so I would, I appreciate that, and I love that there's, you know, the art is this tool that can kind of hit both. And you don't even need to know which type of anger person you are , right ? You can just start making art and then let it speak to you and go exactly slow or small or big and fast as you need to go. So , um, what about like someone who is like, I, I feel like anger is always, protect is a protector emotion. I think anger is always just there protecting you from, from another emotion that is even more scary. At least that's my experience with anger and mm-Hmm . <affirmative> helping my own , own people in my life with anger. Um, what have you noticed as you've helped people use art to work through anger and have that conversation? What sort of transpires , um, in your experience?

Erica: 9:19

I think you're really hitting on , uh, an important piece of working with anger and getting to know and relating to our anger, which is why is it here? Right? What are you trying to tell me? And when I was listening to Lauren, I was even seeing in my imagination, my , I'm a very surprise, surprise . I'm a visual thinker, <laugh>. Yeah . So I, I was sort of seeing , one of the activities that I talk about in the book is like a scribble, right? But very specifically, not just scribbling, but thinking about how do you feel your anger, right? Is it really collapse ? Is it small? Is it tight? Is it slow to build? Right? So perhaps that scribble becomes really slow to build and then it picks up speed and intensity. Or does it start to expand and then contract again, right? So helping people to really start getting a sense of an awareness of what is their process of experiencing anger like , right? And then from there, we can step back and we have an actual image, right? So there's that process piece, and now we have an image that we can step away from and reflect on, right? We call that externalizing in art therapy, right? So it's external to us. So now I have space to reflect. And just getting that space by creating an art object tends to give us a little bit more , um, ability to have insights, access words, right? Because now we can describe this image or work again, from this very creative place of what would my scribble want me to know? What is it trying to tell me? Right? Right . And so then we can just work somewhat spontaneously in terms of what words come up. And I emphasize that piece of, you know, working spontaneously and staying in that creative space, even when we move into words, because especially with adults, I see that they go into the, I don't know, right? Because it's not logical. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . Uh , and so a lot of times, adults that I work with, and I work with all ages. I work with kids, teens, adults, I have a very diverse practice. And the adults will often say, well, I don't, I don't know. Right? Especially if they're not accustomed to working in this creative way. And I'll let them know, it's okay if you don't know, this comes from a not knowing place. Just whatever arises is fine, try not to edit it, because usually something's come up, but they're going, no, that's stupid. That doesn't make sense. And then they edit it, right? And I'm like, I'm just curious. Before you didn't know, did something come up? And usually the answer is, well, yes. Right? And so from there, we can ask questions to the scribble, like, why are you working so hard? Or why are you hiding? It can be a question of what important things do you want me to know, right? If you have a message for me, or if you're trying to advise me about something. And sometimes it can be indeed that there is an underlying more vulnerable feeling, right? That it's trying to protect us from. Sometimes it's protecting us from something that's , um, usually a , like an unfairness or an injustice. Mm-Hmm . Right? Um, or a boundary crossing, right? So, and when I think about boundaries, I feel like that's kind of a buzzword now, right? Like, you know, protecting your boundaries or setting your boundaries. But I really think about boundaries as, you know , um, the, the space where I feel like my stuff is safe, right? And so the space between me and you that says everything that's mine, right? Inside and out. So material, things, money, home, my kids, right? But also my emotions, my physical space, right? Um, my sense of being, right? So that's all my stuff. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> is it, does it feel safe? And so we can create different boundaries. And this is another actually area that I explore in the book is boundary setting, right? Is how can we safely set boundaries and listen to our anger when it's saying, Hey, you are taking too much of my stuff, or I keep telling you no, and you keep pushing it, right? Mm-Hmm , <affirmative> . Now my, now my stuff doesn't feel like it's safe around you . Right? And so anger can talk up about that as well.

Lisa: 13:26

Interesting. That's great. I I love this conversation because it's, you're talking about an emotion, anger as a multi-dimensional thing, and it's a , there's a spectrum. And it seems like in your book, you're really diving into that spectrum of anger. 'cause when I think of anger, you know, I think of one thing, right? It's like we almost like go to the one thing when it's actually multidimensional. And I think, Lauren, you hit on this as well. It's like, well, what's below that? And then what's below that? And what's below that, right? Yes . So it's like this , and then, and I think anger is, is it gonna be a volcano or is it gonna be an implosion? So my question, this, your book is amazing because I think everybody needs these tools, right? Give us, like, I think you said there's over 70 exercises in the book. Yes . Is that right? I mean, that's amazing. Give us maybe like two that you think are key that can help our audience.

Erica: 14:19

Okay. Yes. That's hard to pick two outta . And yet I know , or 70 , I should have proposed less after I got to like 40. I was like, why didn't I say 35 <laugh>? I could be done by now. <laugh> . So yeah . So , um, so the book has broken up in diff different chapters actually, in terms of how we can approach anger. And the first chapter is on self-care, because that's really important that before we start to , um, really get into approaching and relating to our anger and getting to know it, that we have some self-care tools. Um, because depending, of course, depending on the nervous system, we just don't know what's gonna happen when we, and I don't mean that in like a ogly boly scary way, right? But just like air , especially as a clinician, right? Airing on the side of caution. You know, can this person bring themselves back to baseline quickly? Is there enough resilience there? Right. Or once we touch on anger, right? Are we gonna just woo slip right in there, no matter how much containment I provide? And so it's helpful just to get in touch with your own self-care practices. Um, and there's, you know, a bunch of activities and one that comes to mind, for example, is actually , um, akin to a sort of like visual breath meditation in a way, a mindfulness practice. Um, and it invites people to draw diagonal lines across a piece of paper so that you start in the corner and the line is very short, and then you draw a line next to it. And you can imagine that as you get closer to the opposite, diagonals your line's very long Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> , right ? And then as you continue to move towards the corner, then the lines become very short. So the invitation is to do an exhale with each line that you draw and to observe what happens as the breath is a shorter exhale. And then what happens as the breath becomes a longer exhale as it reaches, it'll show on the screen here for people who are watching the video, right ? This would be that long diagonal from corner to corner . So we have a very short breath here, and then we have a very long breath up here. Yeah. Right? And so, and it's also inviting people to become aware of their energy, because anger, naturally, unless we collapse around it, anger is energy. That's its purpose in the nervous system. So if we get in touch with anger , um, without that collapse, it is, it is energy to mobilize us towards resolving the problem so that we can get back to a state of safety so we can get back to a state of feeling, okay. In the world and in our relationships, right? And so it's exploring what happens, you know, as we even slow the hand down. Can I slow that down? Do I have a lot of energy in my nervous system, in my body, right? So even when we're in the corners and we don't have a lot of, you know, a lot of space to take that deep breath, you know, metaphorically <laugh>, <laugh> in the world, there's sometimes not a lot of space to take that deep breath. Can we slow ourselves down so we can create space for that deep breath? Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> , right? And so just playing with lines, just simple lines on a piece of paper and exploring, slowing down the hand, slowing down the breath. What happens when we have less space to breathe? Metaphorically, what happens when we have more space to breathe , metaphorically. Um, because those are practice points for when we're in a situation in real life where we might feel like there's no time, there's no space. This is happening, now I have to take care of it. Now how do I slow down my body and my nervous system so that it doesn't boom, right? Shout out the kids, or boom, you know, slam the door, whatever it might be , right? Those sort of passive aggressive , those are those flavors of like passive aggressive <laugh> , right ? Yeah. So that would be one activity, right? Where I would invite people to start with self-care practices. Just check where you're at , um, in terms of your own general regulation of your emotions, right? Yeah.

Lauren: 18:25

Yeah . I love that you are promoting , um, I , you know, I'm, I'm, I'm a big proponent of like, putting emotions on a circle as opposed to like a linear line. Yes . Because I think we'll put it on a linear line where like, these are good emotions. These are bad emotions. Oh , right . Yeah . And I love that you're putting it in a circle with all , with all emotions and that it , it's just, it's just who you, it's just who we are, right? It's we , it's who we are as individuals, and it's, and it seems to be who we are as a society. Yes . And you're, you're clearly have noticed that society might need , um, some tools for <laugh> , you know, like taking those extra , um, deep breaths, not pushing forward when we're not ready. And maybe that's right . Maybe just, you know, drawing that line a couple more times. And I think, you know, you can get society to change sort of one individual at a time. Lisa and I talk about that all the time. Absolutely. You know, making the world better, kind of one heartbreak at a time, right? And I just, I think if we can continue this conversation that , um, anger isn't something that you , um, need to feel shame for or guilt for, and it's not something you need to be afraid of. It's something that is clearly, it's, it's a bullhorn, right? That is making a very loud announcement, right ? And then it's something that, you know, you should, you should definitely , um, have a conversation with. I I really appreciate that aspect about it.

Erica: 19:51

Thank you. Yes, absolutely. And I think a lot of anger is misdirected, right? And we're not, when we're not really getting underneath and understanding, you know, why is this anger here? Why is it really here? Why is it really here? Right ? <laugh> , um, and I'll share one more, one more activity based off of that, if that's all right . Lisa, I know you asked Reem for two . Yeah . So , um, you know, another one then is, and I talked a little bit about this before, you know, getting to know anger, you can do that scribble I mentioned. And then the third kind of first step I would say is what do you want your relationship with anger to be? And I, and I hinted at that earlier, but in terms of an actual art activity, one of the suggestions I give is to actually draw what managing sort of a classic example of , um, working with anger would sound like. Is managing anger, controlling anger. So what does that look like, right? So if you were in relationship with anger, and you can pick an animal, for example, in the book, I used the example of a dog, right? Like a pet, right? Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . So what would that look like? If you were managing your pet, managing your dog, or controlling your dog, what would that actually look like on paper? Right? And you don't have to be an artist. It doesn't have to look good. You can use shapes, you can use stick figures. It does not matter. You can write words with thinking about the font and the size of the font, and right. You can just write the word manage, right, or control and see what that word looks like. And then what if you were soothing your pet? What if you were leading your pet? What if you were collaborating with your pet ? What if you were training your pet? What if you were right? So we can sort of brainstorm different words that would represent a type of a relationship. What if you were playing with your pet, right? Like, what's that relationship gonna look like? And then on paper, or you know, if, again, if you don't even have to, people are like, oh, I can't draw. That's fine. Do it in your imagination, right? Yes . I mean, our, our brain is like a canvas, right? I mean, you can just picture what does managing look like? And I imagine some of your listeners right now could see it in their imagination without even having to put pencil to paper. And so then picking the most, what would feel like the most helpful, what would feel like the least helpful? And go ahead and either draw or visualize what those images would look like. And that can start to expand again, our idea of wise anger here and what kind of relationship can I have with my own anger, right? We don't, we don't think a lot about our relationships with ourselves. When we think about anger, we think a lot about the impact on others, or I'm mad at others, right? But before we start to relate to others, we want to start thinking about how do we relate to our own internal world? Uh, and a lot of times that can then lead to some sense of comfort, some sense of empowerment, right? And that anger will often feel like, okay, you're listening to me so I can chill and trust that you are going to take care of us, right? And then that would, I think, really go a long way in improving our relationships with one another.

Lisa: 22:58

Love it . I love this. I , this conversation seems like we need to continue. I know we don't have a long time, but what I really love what I got from our conversation, I mean, I love that you're talking about the nervous system, you know, in connection to anger. You know, that's very powerful for me, and that anger is energy. But for me, what really comes up as art, you're encouraging art is a form of kindness, right? Yes . Kindness to self.

Erica: 23:23

Absolutely. Yeah .

Lisa: 23:24

That's such a beautiful thing. I mean, because it's so wonderful. So , um, I don't know, Lauren, if you wanna conclude because we're , yeah ,

Lauren: 23:33

No, I just wanted to , um, thank you for taking the time to talk to us about it. I do think that this is a really important conversation that I, I hope that , um, many people continue to have. Um, you know, obviously Lisa and I talk , um, all the time about the magic that Art has , um, and its ability to help the individual and, and help the world. And I think your book will definitely , um, is already making the world a better place. So thank you

Erica: 23:58

So much.

Lauren: 23:59

Yeah. I appreciate it. I, I appreciate you taking the time to talk to us today.

Erica: 24:03

That's been great being here. Leslie ,

Lisa: 24:06

Erica , how can people get ahold of you? How can they get your book? Which is very important, I think, in these

Erica: 24:10

Times . Oh, thank you. Yes, thank you. So I know Lisa, you're gonna link to the book it's called Working With Anger Creatively. I have it right here for folks that are on video , um, 70 Art Therapy Inspired Activities to Safely Soothe Harness and Redirect Anger for Meaningful Change. You can get it anywhere books are sold, and if they don't have it at your local bookstore, wherever you prefer to buy books, just ask them and they can get it in for you. I'm sure. Um, Barnes and Nobles, Amazon, the traditional places, of course you can get it, it's on Kindle. Um, or if you like the old fashioned way, you can get an actual copy of the book. My website is www therapy with erica.com . Um, and I do have a newsletter that perhaps I can give you the link, Lisa, and people can link to sign up for updates and book giveaways and free samples from the book. And I'll be posting this podcast there, <laugh> . And , um, and so I often have lots of free accessible goodies. I try to make this work as accessible as possible to folks. Um, and so that's a really great way to stay in touch and, and get more information and hopefully more hopeful tools.

Lauren: 25:15

Yeah. Thank you so much. Well , yeah, we'll put all those links. Thank you everybody. All right ,

Erica: 25:19

You're so welcome . Thanks for having me. Alright .