What role can art and music play when a community suffers a crisis?

 Lisa and Lauren are joined by Stacie Aamon Yeldell to discuss the ongoing situation in Los Angeles, California, following the wildfires. They reflect on the devastating impact on local communities and the emotional toll on residents as they navigate recovery challenges, including temporary displacements, uncertainty about rebuilding their homes, and potential environmental changes affecting the area in the future. This is the first episode of a two-part podcast series with Stacie. It begins by exploring the importance of discussing trauma and normalizing the emotions surrounding it. The conversation then shifts to finding a path toward healing by learning how to ask yourself, "What do you need?" and meeting those needs with the resources available. The second episode will delve deeper into Stacie's workbook, offering guidance and hope to the LA community and beyond. 

Transcript

Lisa: 0:00

<silence> Hello everybody. This is Lisa and Lauren from Artist Moving . We are so excited. Today we have a special guest named Stacy Yael . Did I say that right, Stacy ?

Stacie: 0:11

Yes , you did. You nailed it. All

Lisa: 0:12

Right . If you please just introduce yourself and , um, and then we'll have a chat.

Stacie: 0:18

Hello everyone. Um, my name is Stacie Amman Del , and I'm a board certified music psychotherapist , uh, sound healing vocalist, as well as a founder of , uh, my own company, which is called a Mantra, music and Wellness.

Speaker 3: 0:35

Nice. It's nice to meet you, Stacy . Um ,

Stacie: 0:37

Nice to meet you too, <laugh> . Thanks for having

Speaker 3: 0:39

Me. Yeah, thanks for being here. Uh, so we wanted to , uh, use one question as a starting off point , um, and it seems very timely considering what's going on in both you , Lisa, and your neck of the woods with the , uh, fires in la . Um, we wanted to ask you about what role art and music can play , um, in a community after they experience a crisis.

Stacie: 1:04

Mm-hmm <affirmative> .

Speaker 3: 1:05

Yeah.

Stacie: 1:06

Yes. I mean, that's a really great question. Yeah . And it's good that we're asking it. Mm-hmm . Um , because I think what we're realizing more and more is that, you know, art and music and creativity , um, is a necessity. Right? It's not a luxury thing. Um, I've, I think that's the first thing to kind of start this answer with is what I'm hearing is to just recognize first that we live in a culture that separates art and creativity from us. Um, it doles it out to only certain people that are talented or gifted or inclined. Mm-hmm <affirmative> . And that is the , a belief system of the West , um, that we are ingrained with from, you know, the beginning , uh, since, since, you know, as soon as we're born and we're, and we start to grow up, those kinds of ideas , uh, begin to circulate. So I think understanding that we oftentimes start off with this , uh, not everybody, but some of us start off with this idea that we aren't creative, right? Yeah . Or that we aren't creative people, and, but creativity is actually , uh, uh, an innate gift that we're all born with. We all have the ability to create, we are creator beings, and the idea that we don't have access to our creativity is a belief system. And again, it's from the west. To give you a little bit of contrast, when I spent a lot of time in Brazil and Baia , uh, one of the things I was struck by , um, is that everybody is saints there. Mm-hmm <affirmative> . Right? The plumber , uh, the guy who does your taxes also plays caino, you know? Mm-hmm . And the Saama band at night, there's no separation of, oh, I don't play . I'm not this, I'm not that. I'm not creative. Everybody is just creative <affirmative> , and it's just an understood thing that that's just a natural form of expression. Mm-hmm <affirmative> . So I just wanna kind of start off by saying we're , we're , you know , as in the West, we are already kind of dealing with this idea. Um , and that's what I find a lot in my work, is this idea, well, I'm not creative , um, and I'm, and I'm not able to engage in my creativity because I'm not inclined, so to speak. Mm-hmm . Yeah . So when we bring in art and music and bring it in from a play perspective , um, where there is no attachment to the outcome mm-hmm <affirmative> . Then that's one of the ways that we can override that program, right. Because that program is connected to performance. So what I always tell my students is that creative expression is your birthright, but performance is a choice.

Speaker 3: 3:37

Oh, I like that . Yeah. Yeah .

Stacie: 3:40

Two very different things, right? Some of us are decide to perform. Some of us are, I don't believe in being inclined, right. Because anybody who's a real performer artist been in the business knows that it took a lot of practice. Yes . And it took a lot of blood, sweat, and tears. Yes . It's a lot of work. Right. So I'm not inclined, you know, to , to , you know, I had to, I had to work to get to that point. But what I'm trying to make clear is that that is a very clear choice, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative> . A performance choice, performance is what activates the ego and triggers the ego. And that's oftentimes what , um, kind of causes people to shut down or not wanna be in, in , in creativity or art, because it's like, oh, like I get a lot, are you gonna make me sing? Like when I walk into a group, or, you know, people , you know, there's a lot of , um, anxiety or resistance we'll see around, but what that's connected to is performance, meaning I'm gonna have to sing in front of you, right. Or I'm gonna have to do something in front of you, or I'm gonna make , make a piece of art, and it has to be a cer certain kind of a thing. And it's, and , and I'm attached to it being pretty, or being nice. So that's a different kind of music art making , right? Totally .

Speaker 3: 4:53

Yes. It's

Stacie: 4:53

Great. It's great, but it's not the kind we're talking about today. Right? Right. In terms of the kinds of ways that we can utilize the art forms to reconnect us to ourselves Yes. In the midst of tragedy and in the midst of crisis. Right . And so, one of the ways we can do that is by first establishing that we're creating, not because we are attached to any particular outcome. We're not creating a product that's going to be sold, that's gonna be judged, that's gonna be put on a wall, or listened to, you know, on a streaming device, if we want to do that later, or if we wanna do that at that some at some point we are free to, right? Yeah. But this is really about how do we engage with music and art in order to, to be a vehicle of connection. Yeah. Yeah . So I just wanna say that first, right? Because that's like a , I think ,

Speaker 3: 5:45

Uh , yes. I mean, Lisa and I, let's see, Lisa, I've been talking about this since like, I don't, I almost 20 years. And yeah , we always mention like, why do people constantly attach it to talent and to an object and to it? And, and once we kind of, from Uhhuh , <affirmative> Yeah. Break it down for people, they , you can watch them have that moment of like, oh , okay. And then it kind of opens them up some more. And I think, you know, it's really important to understand that, I mean, art in itself is limitless, and so why would you box it? Why would you put a label on it? You know? And I love the distinction like it , and that it is your choice, you know? Um, and you're not taking away from the fact that people who choose to perform <laugh> , it's not like they're like waking up and they can just magically do it. Magic . It's a lot of work, you know? Right . Anyone who's ever , um, been on stage or hung in a gallery or , um, you know, tried to put together a demo tape, knows what all that is. Yeah. Mm-hmm <affirmative> . So my follow up question then would be, like, right now , um, you know, if you, if you could have access to anything in, in the LA area, what do you think the best thing for LA would be to help it connect , uh, and, and heal and then ultimately thrive? I

Stacie: 7:09

Think the thing that we talked about before , um, is this kind of meaning before off camera , we talked a bit about how people are responding in different ways. Yeah . So I think the , the , the, the conversation that I would like to have around this is being able to really curate and customize , uh, wellness practices and tools based upon the needs of the individual mm-hmm <affirmative> . Because I think it's really hard to prescribe something , um, for a whole group of people mm-hmm <affirmative> . Right . Um, so I, I'm really more so about this kind of idea of helping people to identify for themselves. Oh, hey Katie , I identify for the , I love when the cat's make an appearance. They just like , Hey , <laugh> . So, you know, really identifying for ourselves, you know, what each person needs. And so to give you like a clear system of that. So let's just look at trauma responses mm-hmm <affirmative> . Right ? Yes . Mm-hmm . By flight freeze, fawn . So we all have our trauma responses. They are, most of the time they're hardwired in childhood. And, you know, they're based upon a , a variety of factors. Um, when a crisis happens, we tend to go into a trauma response. And the trickiness about trauma responses is sometimes we don't know that we're in one. Right? Yeah . We don't know that that's what's happening. And so, especially if it's one like freeze. Yeah . So the freeze trauma response is just like when a deer freezes, when it senses a predator nearby. And as we've heard this metaphor before, the deer gets to shake, right? And like, after the predator's gone, and it shakes all that energy out, well, most of the time when we go into freeze, we stay into freeze , we stay frozen. And that is that , that , that's, that's a , a locked kind of response. And the nervous system kind of gets locked into, into place mm-hmm <affirmative> . So of course we know the other ones , um, are fight, you know, and that , and that's people who kind of tend to go into this, you know, fight mode and I'm gonna fight it out. And that can look a lot of different ways. Yeah. Um, and there's flight, which is what happened with me when the fires happened, where I woke up, there was smoke. The air quality was bad that we had alerts going off. I didn't know the difference between an evacuation warning and an evacuate evacuation alert. So we were, we were in a warning, but the, but even the sound of the iPhone alert Oh my gosh, yes . Which we know later came many more times in error. So just that sound , uh, alone was enough to hit me in my root chakra. If we're gonna talk about chakra, is that part of that center where mm-hmm <affirmative> . You know, my animalistic response and I just took off like, and I thought I was a freeze freezer <laugh> . Right ? Yeah . Yeah . Right . But it turns out, it turns out in that particular instance that I was flight, and I didn't even realize I was in flight, I was like, because I'm very methodical and I'm a Virgo. And so I was very calmly mapping out a , a route out of Los Angeles. I'm , my mom lives in Phoenix, I'm gonna do that. You know, and my partner's just kind of like, on a whole nother like, vibe , you know? He was, it felt , it felt like he was moving in slow motion. And I'm like, what are you doing? Why aren't you packing? What did it , you know? And he's looking at me like, you know, so turns out I was in flight and did not realize it. So that's the first thing, is to be able to begin to recognize if we can for ourselves, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative> . What is my , what are my trauma responses? Yeah . And where do I tend to go when I'm in crisis? Because that's going to help me to understand what I need to do next . Yeah . Yeah . Right . What do I need to do next? So what I did was, I knew that I needed to , uh, ground and connect, reconnect to my body, because what a trauma response does, either way, whichever one yours is, it tends to kick you out of your body. Meaning there's a type of dissociation that happens. So whether you're flight fighting or fighting, or, you know, there's a, there's, there's something that kind of disconnects , um, or can fragment. Um, when we look at long-term PTSD , we see that people tended to dissociate, for example, during a very, very difficult moments or traumatic moments, let's just say. And sometimes when anything that comes near them that kind of smells, tastes, looks like that their nervous system will do the same thing and pop them out of their body again. Mm-hmm . And then they go into a dissociative steam . Right? So, so PTSD is, you see this dis this , this kind of dissociation that kinds of ha that happens , um, as a result of a person being triggered. Yeah . So that's the thing we wanna recognize, is that if we are in a crisis, then something is getting triggered, right? That trigger can be connected to something from early childhood, or it could just be a , a , an animalistic primal reptilian fight, flight fight, you know, fight, flight , freeze. Um, fawn is the other one, response. Mm-hmm <affirmative> . So that's a really, really important thing to , to notice mm-hmm <affirmative> . And you'll see it, as we said, some people just kind of walking around like nothing happened. Right. They could be in freeze, you know? Right . Or they could be in a type of fi fight. Like, I gotta keep, you know, sometimes fight is like, I gotta keep moving. Right? Right. Yeah . I just gotta keep, I gotta keep going to work, you know, I'm gonna keep moving through this. So I just think that's the first piece to be able to really, really recognize is, you know, maybe that's about just educating people around what that means. Yeah . So in , in therapy, we call the psychoeducation, right? Yeah . So doing some psychoeducation about the nature of trauma, about the nature of crisis. And what we really wanna do is be able to help people to be empowered to come back to their bodies in a way that feels safe to them. Yeah. Yeah . And I'm saying that in a way because in LA we have all of these kinds of practices, and there's a lot of spirituality here mm-hmm <affirmative> . And it's a lot of tools, and it's, and I'm not saying those things are not helpful mm-hmm <affirmative> . But again, we can't prescribe, you know, like, I'm gonna probably get into a lot of trouble for saying this, but do it a sound bath may not be the best thing when you are in a trauma state, right?

Lisa: 13:26

Yeah. So what I'm, what I'm hearing is , um, you really have to be mindful. I mean, it's actually, I know it's horrible <laugh> the fires and this crisis we're in, but it's actually a good , um, tool right now to like, be mindful and say, how did I react? So how I reacted was I was going through this , uh, the fires were only like three streets away, and we were having the warning, and that thing on my iPhone was driving me insane. But I was like, I was walking around going, what would break my heart if it was gone? You know? So I was kind of going through this like, almost like, like a process , like a , I don't know what type of process I was walking around, which paintings do I wanna bring, you know what I mean? Mm-hmm . Which ones, you know, what objects, what pictures. And I'm like, you know, it was such a weird process. And then my cats , I had to take care of my cats. Like, how am I gonna get them in the thing? You know what I mean? So I was going in this process, and then my thing was when the cops like, banged on the door, I'm like, you gotta get out. I was just , that was almost like flight. I was like, I was totally picking up. Yeah . Oh, yeah. Because I was like, we gotta get outta here. We gotta like, we gotta go. And, you know, I was like, my cat didn't get in the , the carrier, so I had to use like, my mama's strength. Like I lifted up the car, you know what I mean? And you shove them in there and you're , you know, there was no choice. And I was like, mental, and my whole nervous system was going like, freaky. So , um, I think what I love is like, yes, you have to be mindful of like, how did I react? I mean, we mm-hmm <affirmative> . In la How did I react? You know, what is my reaction? What is that trauma response? I think that's brilliant.

Speaker 3: 15:01

I think that just

Lisa: 15:02

Identify that,

Speaker 3: 15:03

Yeah. It's your , it's that , um, it , it reminds me of our last conversation when we were talking about , um, self-awareness, how art can help you build self-awareness. And so you, you need to, you need to be willing to reflect, but I think you're right, Stacy , that like, when you're, if, I mean, when you're in the middle of a crisis, right? Yeah . Um, you might wanna sound bath with some therapy added on top of that, right? And we always wanna, we always try to note that when we're talking to people about, like, our taking art break movement, right? Our take Art break movement is about integrating arts into your daily life, like proper exercise, eating right? And, you know, but it isn't gonna solve all your problems. And I think that you need to be really, again, like Lisa said, mindful of, of all of it and be willing to , um, recognize all of it. And the willingness is, the part that might be tough for a lot of people is the willingness to , um, you know, come to an understanding with what a big deal it is. Right? Because it , it's, for me, it feels like grief, like crisis a lot of times feels like your grieving process mm-hmm <affirmative> . Because there is a lot of grief involved. Yeah . And the way I've al I've always taught , I've always dealt with grief, right? And we know that nobody deals with grief the same way. Um, is little pieces at a time , like five minutes here, five minutes there of like, it's almost an outof body experience where something hits me really hard and it's a physical response, and then I realize why I'm doing it. Right. And I think that you have to be willing to realize it. Um, and that might be a really tough step. So what can someone do to even be willing to reflect on what they are currently going through? It's not like it, it's over, they're currently in the middle of it. Right?

Stacie: 16:53

Yeah, totally. And, and just to , just to, like, for me to be really specific about the sound bath thing, you know, that, and that will lead into the answering of this next question, is there are some practices that are, that are not gonna be what we call them, you know, kind of counter indicative, right? They're like, it's a contraindication , um, for whatever's going on. And so when I think of certain kinds of sound baths , particularly the fact that it's not a regulated , uh, uh, intervention, meaning anybody can go buy some bowls, anybody can do it , um, that could be quite dissociative. So that is a , that's, that's a contra that's against if you're already dissociated , if you're already per traumatized and you're outta your body, right? Then we wanna look at something that's going to bring you back into your body in a safe way, right? And embodying practice. Mm-hmm <affirmative> . So that's what I meant when I was saying, yeah . You know, kind of maybe sound bad is not the right, the best thing to do if you're in an actively traumatized state. Yes . But you, but you make a really good question because you ask a good question about the willingness, because also what's happening and when we're in a trauma state is that we are temporarily unable to access the rational mind, right? So there's a, there's a, there's a disconnect in the brain that, that corpus cossum that part of the brain where we are no longer in our rational mind, right? So in anything having to do with reasoning, willingness or any of those things, right? Uh , we may not even have access to. And that's one of the great things about art, right? Is that art is able to, we are able to engage in artistic creative practices that, and that's that . And that can actually help to bridge us back to our reason, right? Bridge us back to the functioning part of the brain. So oftentimes just being engaged in a creative activity as , which is what we're talking about , um, has the , um, ability to be able to do that. Right? So I think that when it comes to, you know , the, the willingness, it's again, going back to that psychoeducation and saying, listen, we're all moving through something. We're all going through something that's , and normalizing it and saying, listen, we, we need to address and give to yourself. And sometimes, sometimes it's just about marketing copy. I hate to say it like that, but like, I have to be really careful about the way I write things, you know? Yeah . So when we say stress relief, you know , um, you know, mindfulness, stress reduction, you know , um, uh, especially in LA you really have to say things like, you know, improve your focus, you know? Mm-hmm . Like, sometimes people don't realize that the reason why they're not focused and not productive and not is because you're still stuck in a trauma response. Right? Yeah . Right. You, you , you're not able , you're not gonna be able to be , come back into business as usual, you know, if that's the case, right? Mm-hmm . So I think really just being able to communicate this and begin to normalize this as , um, what trauma actually looks like. 'cause this , 'cause the unfortunate part is that this is not our first rodeo. No . We have been in a trauma response probably since covid . So now what we're looking at is we're looking at compound and complex P Ts complex PTSD is complex because it indicates in the DSM that it's a trauma that is ongoing. Yeah . Meaning it's not a one point in time thing that happens. So many of us are experiencing complex PTSD , because we have been through the trauma of Covid , of George Floyd, of the, the presidential elections of , you know, of, of the, of global warming, of financial crisis. You know? Uh , I mean, it's a lot. And it , and it has a lot. So that's the other piece of this, right? Is that we're not really just talking about the fires. We're talking about that being the latest situation in a long line of other traumatic things that has many of us experiencing complex PTSD at this point,

Speaker 3: 20:51

Right? I mean, 'cause you're like, your life, you're carrying a suitcase of your experiences along with you. And it's not like you remove one in order to, you don't really make room. Your suitcase gets bigger. It's not like you're like , ah , let me remove this sweater from my trauma at five years old. Right? You're squishing it in. And I think that , um, and I, that's why it's my que my, the the question I had before I thought of the suitcase thing is, can a community experience, is there something called community, PTSD ? Like, is it, you know, like, are we as a, as a , and I'll just talk about the United States right now. 'cause that's all I can really speak to. 'cause it's where I've lived my entire life. Um mm-hmm <affirmative> . Are we experiencing , uh, like a communal ptsd , ts D because Yeah. Like a collective.

Stacie: 21:39

IIII would absolutely say yes, based upon my clinical observation. <laugh> Yeah. Clinical opinion of, and I just say that from , from 20 years of working in inpatient psych, you know, because there used to be a time when that was a clear break for me, right? Mm-hmm . I would go to work at an inpatient psych unit, and then I would come home into the normal world. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 22:00

Interesting.

Stacie: 22:00

The lines have blurred.

Speaker 3: 22:02

Yeah.

Stacie: 22:03

I could be walking through a store in LA and feel like I'm in an inpatient psych unit, right? Because , right.

Speaker 3: 22:08

Yeah.

Stacie: 22:09

Because you literally have so many people who are not accustomed to the type of envi environmental stressors that are been happening, people who do not have organic mental illnesses, meaning that they didn't, you know, kind of, and that's a whole thing too, whether what that really is, right ? But what we call organic. Yeah . Which means you , you literally have an onset of mental health symptoms that appear and you go into treatment and no . Now what's happening is we're looking at, again, traumatic events and just a crippling level of uncertainty. That alone will trip your nervous system,

Speaker 3: 22:50

Right? Yeah. Yeah. And you can

Stacie: 22:53

See it on ,

Speaker 3: 22:54

Right?

Stacie: 22:55

You could see it. And if you want a , a , a , a litmus test, go drive on the 4 0 5, you'll see all of it playing out. Right? I mean , funny, but also it's true. Like, you know,

Speaker 3: 23:07

I know, right? No, like I , a little bit of levity is nice because it's hard to, you know, 'cause like , um, I've talked to a couple people now in my life and , uh, Lisa included about this, like, this feeling amongst people where, and for me, it's this feeling of like the bottom about to fall out. And like, when I talk to people, some people feel like they're one bad day away from having a nervous breakdown. And I'm encountering more of those people in my life. And that's why I asked the question, is that like, and, and what do you think is causing that? Is it that we are, is it that separation? The , um, the , um, unwillingness or like, even the, the not having the necessary tools, not being educated in the fact that while you might think that everybody else is experiencing trauma, it couldn't possibly be you having a trauma response. You know, I asked someone, I was, you know , I like having this conversation with someone, and I said , um, uh, well, you've been in, you know, survival mode pretty much your whole life. Do you think you're still in survival mode? And I, it was a reality check for me. The response I received was, what's survival mode? And I was like, oh, I was assuming it was a given. And it's not. It's not. And Lisa and I have to remind ourselves of that all the time. The language that we use, our belief system is very separate than a lot of other people's belief systems. So I think that you Right. That maybe it's just starts with a conversation about we're all doing this, you know? Right. We're all in the middle of this right now, you know? And I do love art because it's that, it is that thing that once you can get someone to do it, it, it does change their, it does change them whether they, whether that willingness is there or not. Right. It's kind of like a secret tool, you know? Yeah , totally . But I dunno how you get people to do it, right? You gotta, you gotta get 'em to do it. Well.

Stacie: 25:12

Well, the other part of it too, oh, go ahead, Lisa. No, no,

Lisa: 25:14

No . I was just thinking people, not that we have to, like, what? I'm just thinking, it's like we're traumatized by birth, you know what I mean? In Western world. I mean, you come out and it's, I mean, it's from the beginning, we're traumatized, and then it's just layers. But I think people have to, it, creativity takes courage, you know? That it , it's like that notion. And I think that , um, people have to admit that there's an issue. <laugh> Yeah . There's a challenge. And I'm not, you know, this is, I don't know if people understand that. Like, it's not normal to, you know what I mean? They don't know where the baseline is anymore. That's what I'm,

Stacie: 25:52

That's right. That's exactly right. And that's the part about not realizing that they're in survival mode. You know, there are people who, who, who grow up in the hood, who are li that is just the default setting and forever, right? Yeah . Because you, you literally are just living in a po in a , in a state of trying to just survive and trying , and let's not, you know, let's be clear like that is by design. Yeah . Right? Yes . That is a system that has been designed in order to do that . So when I think about how creativity is, is powerful, I think about it in terms of the energy centers. 'cause I mentioned before the chakras, and whether we believe in that or not, it's just a kind of great system to think about. When you look at the, the root and the, the sacral, which is kind of like the, the mm-hmm <affirmative> . Sexual organs, our creative center and our solar plexus, that those are typ , typically our, our body chakra, right? So that's typically where we hang out in terms of the body. And that's where a lot of that survival animalistic , um, uh, energy is housed really in the, in the root chakra. But when we began to create, because creation is a connecting force. Yeah . So what we're really looking at is disconnection and connection. So trauma is disconnection. Mm-hmm <affirmative> . Right? It's being completely fragmented. It's out of body , it's mental, it's, it's a , it's a form of disconnection, right? What creativity does is creativity fosters connection. So we're able to connect to ourselves, right? Because by the sheer act of creating, what begins to happen is we become very present. And that's the magic sauce. <laugh>, we become present. So we are no longer in the grips of the fear of the anxiety of what might be. And we are no longer in the grips of the pain and the suffering of what has been, right ? Yeah . And in that moment, we are just present with whatever we're creating, whether we're writing a song, whether we're planting a garden, whether we're doing a , a doodling activity. We are, we are in an act of becoming very, very present. When we become present, we move from those energy centers up into the heart mm-hmm <affirmative> . And now we become heart centered. So when we're heart centered and we're present, that is the antithesis of stress. That is when the nervous system begins to become regulated, we begin to breathe differently. Yeah . You know? And we are safe. We are safe in the present moment. Right? Yeah . And that's the, that's the magic of, that's just one of the magic things of creativity. The other thing it does is it bypasses our defense mechanisms so that we can then begin to feel Yeah . And create those containers to be able to, 'cause we're not talking about doing a spiritual bypass, right. We're talking about getting present enough to actually sit in our bodies in a way where we feel safe. Yeah . And we can begin to feel the feelings that we need to feel, right? Yeah . Begin to express so that the container of art gives us that space to be able to, as they say, you know, once, once we let it flow, it will go mm-hmm <affirmative> . So then it becomes the emotional expression from being able to release . So that's part of how art and music and any kind of creative act , um, can be and will and , and in many way is the , um, an answer, so to speak, for crisis and for trauma, because it , it's an embodying practice and, and it brings us into play. Yeah . Mm-hmm . Mm-hmm <affirmative> . And play is also presence. Yeah. Yeah. We playing, we're present. Think about a kid building a sandcastle on the beach . Totally. Right. Completely present. The wave comes, takes the sandcastle away , the kid goes, oh, no. But then they say, let's build another one, Uhhuh , you know, like right back into the park , you know? So that's that play energy. And let me tell you, we are not in play. Right? Oh my gosh . We can't be in play and be in fight or flight. Yeah . Right ? You can't be in play and be in a trauma response at the same time. Right? Yeah . Yeah . Play is being fully built fully in the present moment. And the caveat to that is, like I said, there is peace in the present moment. Yeah . There is peace in this moment. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I think that, that , the key is when I do workshops and when I do classes, when I, one of the things that I always kind of lead with, and this is part of what I do in my workbook, I wrote a workbook , um, last year that was really about exactly what we're talking about. It's like, how do I chart a course back to myself? Yeah. The midst of the chaos. And it's called Choose Yourself A 12 Week Journey , um, to becoming the God of your own heart. And one of the key questions that we ask in that workbook that I think is a good moment to mention now is a pivotal question. And that is, what do I need? What do I need? Mm-hmm <affirmative> . So once you figure out your trauma response, if we're gonna do a system, right ? Yeah . Yeah . Figure out, okay, I'm in fight flight. Right? Then you say, okay, what do I need? Mm-hmm <affirmative> . Mm-hmm <affirmative> . And I would add, what do I need with the resources that I currently have? Mm . Yeah . Mm-hmm <affirmative> . Because sometimes when we ask what do I need, we go into our head and the mind starts to weep all the things that we don't have <laugh> . Yeah . Right . Why I need to go to Fiji. But unfortunately, it's like, no , no , no, no . Yeah . So what , what , what do you, there's a need behind getting on a plane and going to Fiji. What do you need? What will Fiji bring you? Yeah. Well , well, I , I need the blue water. Okay. Okay. But what will , and I'm speaking for myself now 'cause this is always trying to get on the plane , <laugh> . Right . Always trying to get on the plane. But what is what , but what is it that really, what I'm really seeking is peace. Yeah. I need nature. I need to connect. Mm-hmm <affirmative> . I need to get quiet. Right. I need to ground So the , there's a need behind the impulse to do something. Yeah. So if we can unpack what that need is, then the way we meet that need is an infinite number of ways. Mm-hmm <affirmative> . That need could be met Right. When we detach from the actual thing. So what do we need? What do you need? Yeah. And what I'll , and , and I'll, what I'll, the last thing I'll say about that before we go to the next question, 'cause I think this is kind of building into the system that I would , I wanted this to be able to talk about for each person who's listening is, you know, that's going to be different for everyone. Yeah. Yeah . And, and it might not be an easy question for those of us who are hardwired to meet the needs of other people first. Mm-hmm <affirmative> . So there lies our other trauma response. <laugh> Bon . Yes. Bon Hello Bon is a trauma response. Hi. I'm a bon trauma response <laugh>. Well , and , and when I'm not freezing and flight . Right. Um, fawn is a trauma response that I learned from being a child of an alcoholic. Yeah . Hardwired. Right? What do you need? What does the alcoholic mean ? Right? Mm-hmm . What , how can I organize my life and the things in this house so that they can, I mean, literally, I'm so good at that. So then I decide unconsciously to become a therapist, which is all about meeting other people's needs, right. <laugh> . Yep . So how so, so hence the revolutionary question. No, no, no, no. What do I need?

Speaker 3: 33:08

Yeah . Right now?

Stacie: 33:10

Yeah . What do I need? And that's the first question to chart the rest of the course that we're gonna be talking about today. <laugh>.

Speaker 3: 33:17

Yeah . I feel like, yeah, I feel like you would need to ask yourself, it reminds me of the why ladder, right? You would need to, like, you ask yourself why over and over again to get to the root of the real why, like, why am I choosing to do something versus why not? And it's like mm-hmm . You have to ask yourself, what do you need? And then you have to be like, well, what do you really need? Well , okay, let's try again. What do you need? You know, because we are, all of us are , um, right. We're all playing a role , uh, in society. And so you do have to, it is almost like you have to do the work to get down to your own roots. Right. Other , not the per , not the performative self, but the self, self , you know? Exactly. And so it's almost like you would need like five pages <laugh> of like, what do you need? Okay. And then turn the page, what do you need? And, you know, and really ask yourself. Okay. So, so far we have conversation, which leads to education, which I love. I love the idea of like, educating people and knowledge. Knowledge is super powerful. And then that maybe that might lead to the willingness maybe, and then the really getting back into that present moment so that you can ask yourself, what do you need with the resources that you currently have.

Stacie: 34:32

Mm-hmm

Lisa: 34:33

<affirmative> . Mm-hmm <affirmative> . I , I was talking to somebody yesterday about that concept of, right now, in this day, <laugh> 2025, we really need to, you know, do self care . But I think , um, and this also with art, it's like, people are artists. You are selfish. You know what I mean? People as the programming that, you know, to take care of yourself is kind of like a selfish act, right ? So how do you switch that response, right? Because I know a lot of people, oh, you're an artist. It's kind of a selfish activity, <laugh>, you know mm-hmm <affirmative> . You know, it's, it's, it's a response and it's programmed in us. So how do you, and , and I think that's what you're talking about, the fawning, fawning, where people fawn like, it's, it's about you. It's not about me. And then at the end of the day, you're burned out, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative> . So that's where burnout comes from. So how do

Stacie: 35:21

You , I mean, I think it , it's , it's, it's , it's important to indicate that there's certain things that we were told that were just not true. <laugh> , you know, there are certain lies that are in society, and one of the lies is that we can be productive, right? And we can grind without putting anything back in the tank. That that's just it , it , no system works like that. So again, going back to nature , um, reconnecting to the natural world and the way the natural world operates, and that everything is interdependent and everything is feeding everything in order to keep the systems going. You know? So I think unfortunately, the , when we figure that out is when we do hit burnout, it's when we do hit a wall, it's when we do go into that place where all of a sudden the nervous system is all over the place, and I'm a day away from having a nervous breakdown. That's the moment where we like, okay, hold on. Something is off in my system. The system is outta balance. How do I bring balance back into the system? Well, how much energy have you been putting out, right? Mm-hmm . If you're just putting out energy, putting out energy, and yes, surviving is energy output, that that is, that is a level of output to survive, right? So if we know that that's what's happening, and there's, and we recognize that there's all this energy output, then the prudent thing to do, just like a doctor would take out a prescription pad and write a, a prescription for you, the most prudent thing to do would be to figure out how do I start to put energy back into the system again? So they can start to operate at an efficient level, because it's not gonna operate at depletion. So that's where self care comes in. That, and, and , and to me, one of the things that I did in the workbook is I started to call it actually self devotion. Because self devotion is on a , such a , a higher level than self-care. To me, self-care still sounds , um, a little bit , uh, I don't know . It , it brings up that feeling like , like, like it's selfish, like you're saying, right? Hmm . It's like, you know, and then I think about things like, you know, getting my nails done, you know, or getting a massage or, you know, and the , and the fact of the matter is sometimes those things don't work. So I think when people do self care and it's not working, it's because it's not connected to that original question we just asked, what do you need? Yeah. Right. Connect the activity to what you need. So if you need peace, then if I need peace, going to get my nails done is not gonna do that because I'm quite neurotic and I'm gonna always be paying attention to the lady. Was she gonna clip my, you know, those little tools? And it's like sometimes, so I'm actually more hyper alert of, right. I'm not relaxed doing that. Right. So I'm not gonna choose the act . So sometimes we don't choose the right activities because they're not necessarily targeted to what is needed by our systems in that particular moment. So the more we can get clear about what those needs are, then, then the self care becomes targeted. And then once it becomes targeted, then we can put it into a ritual , meaning it becomes a part of a daily practice. Mm-hmm <affirmative> . And then we are, now we're cooking because if we can get a daily practice in place mm-hmm <affirmative> . Now we're actually consistently regulating the nervous system. Mm-hmm . Consistently. There's not a, a , a thing where we're waiting until we hit a wall to then try and go put an IV in our arm and re re refill up, which is how most of us live, honestly. We just go, go, go, go, go. We hit the wall, we burn out, and then we go take a vacation for seven days. Right. Which doesn't, because it takes you four days to , uh, to even come down from the, the burnout. And then by the time you come down from the burnout, you only got two days left, and then it's time to get on the plane. Yeah, totally. No , <laugh> happened to me in September. I finally got on vacation, and then , and I , and I was, for the first four days, I was just mm-hmm <affirmative> . Like this. Mm-hmm <affirmative> . I had pushed, I had already gotten to depletion. So what I'm proposing mm-hmm <affirmative> . Is this idea of first asking what we need and being able to establish what that is, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative> . Um, and the other other thing I haven't mentioned is in the workbook, there are these grounding practices that are music that we , we listen and we we're guided into this meditative state. And the , the idea is to ask the question what I need from that place. Mm . Yeah. Again, because the mind <laugh> , yeah . The mind is gonna get involved. Well , I need this and I need that, and I need this. And I , you know, and I ain't , and , and , and I , you know, oh , and then the mind will go into the past and be like, remember when I needed this? And I didn't get it. Remember when I asked him for this and he didn't give it to me? And Oh, and what about next week? And the RINs do I , I , I'm not, I don't , you know, so we don't wanna ask this question from the mind. We really wanna like drop down into a , a place of , of, of calm through a meditative practice or through anything mindful, even if it's just holding a cup of , of teas , you holding your cat. Something where you can just feel calm and then ask, you know, what is it that I really need right now ? Mm-hmm <affirmative> . And then from that answer, then we say, okay, what are the practices? What are the activities? What are the rituals that will allow me to be able to meet these needs? Yeah. And then the goal is to every day kind of put it into a little bit of a , uh, daily practice. And there's, again, with the workbook, there's a checklist there to , to really help with that. And the, the last thing I'll say is that it's a , it's, it's , this is about creating micro moments in your day. This is not about revamping your entire life because who has time, right? Right . Because that's the next thing people are gonna say. They're gonna say, oh, I don't have time. Oh , yeah . To be in self devotion. And I'm like, well, you have to go to the bathroom in morning <laugh>, so Yeah . You have to eat. Yeah . Yeah. You know, you have to shower. I mean, you really don't have to, but like, hopefully you do. Probably should <laugh> , any of those moments can become micro moments of mindfulness where we stop for a second. And that's just a moment where it becomes a moment of in intentional presence that so we can build in these things, you know, into our day. So I'm not proposing , um, that everybody just, you know, revamp their entire life, because that's not necessarily possible. Yeah. So we have the grounding practice asking what you need, tuning into what you need, and then allowing your self care to become curated to that need, which then becomes a daily practice, which then turns into devotion. Yeah . Because if you're doing anything daily, it's devotion. Yeah. It's a devotional practice

Speaker 3: 42:07

That the , like the artist in me is like going off on this trail in my mind right now, where like, you are standing in front of people and like the community and you're helping them with this music, and they're all here, and then you're asking them what they need, and then they're just writing it down and just putting it up on a wall. And then other people can read it and just not feel alone in their needs, but also be like, well, I can help you with that need, and you can help with that need. I just love this idea of people coming together and as individuals and understanding that like, my needs are way different than your needs or similar or whatever. But like, if we can get to that point where we can honestly express them, maybe we can serve each other as well as ourselves, you know? Uh , I'm just Exactly . That's a fantasy I'm having right now, which would be so

Stacie: 42:58

Amazing . Well , what you just described is workshops that I've done . I mean, that's , that is , that is , that's literally what we do in the we , that's literally what we do in our workshops. Love , I love did one for the Hope series, the one that for ping's . Um , yeah . I literally last week we did, we did self-care tools in Times of Crisis, and oh , we all joined on Zoom, and I had my guitar and I guided this, you know, got grounded practice, asked what we need. Yes. You know, gave them the PDFs , uh, self checklist. Mm-hmm . Um , self devotional checklist from the workbook. And that was the whole thing was for them to, based upon what they needed Yes . To then begin to formulate a daily practice to meet those needs. I love that. So that's, so, so what you are saying is that I love too, is that you're bringing in the community aspect of this Yeah . Which is important because we can do this work on our own, right? Yeah . Which is important because being able to build that bridge to ourselves is, is , is , is key. It's , it's a primary thing. And as you so amazingly, you know, suggested to then be able to make it a community activity where we are then, you know, actually sharing those needs and then the resources.

Speaker 3: 44:02

Yes. <laugh>,

Stacie: 44:03

Then we are combining resources, right? Yeah . Because going back to being an ecosystem. Yes . Yeah . This is the problem right now. Right? Yes . Michael Beard Beckwith , one of my favorite spiritual teachers, said years ago that the whole world has taken a nightmare pill and the nightmare pill is separation.

Speaker 3: 44:23

Oh my God. Yeah . So

Stacie: 44:24

We're separated. Mm-hmm . But separation is not natural. That is something that has been engineered. We are not ever separate. There's no way we can chemically quantumly be separate from one another. It's impossible.

Speaker 3: 44:37

A

Stacie: 44:37

Lot easier to <crosstalk> . So anytime . Yeah. So anytime we can, we can bring people together and , and , and we're in that original state of being one organism mm-hmm <affirmative> . Which we are Yes . On the chemical quantum level, then all of a sudden the healing is going to happen because we are not intended to heal in , in , in individually or be separate. Um, Deepak Chopper said that a cell just decided to go off and do its own thing, has become cancer. It's cancer.

Lisa: 45:05

Yes. Yes , yes. Mm-hmm

Stacie: 45:07

<affirmative> . So, so where you all are just doing such beautiful work with this podcast and with this question, is really tapping into the true thing that's needed to heal. Right. Which is for us to come together in community and create, because when we come together in community, and then we become very present mm-hmm . Because we're creating and we're playing, then that is the healing because we're healing that sense of separation that has been manufactured by Yeah . The powers that be . Right. Totally. Because as you said, Lauren, you know, we're easier to control in that way.

Speaker 3: 45:39

Very much easier to control, oh , we need to find a way to make this happen. I think it would be , it

Lisa: 45:44

Reminds me of that , uh, the artist with the , uh, whaty Fear . Who's that artist? Um , Andy ,

Speaker 3: 45:50

She's one of my favorite . She's amazing.

Lisa: 45:52

It would be, what do you need? It's a big chalkboard. Huge. And people are like, what do you need <laugh> ? And it'd be really cool if you, if the if community, then what do I need? Maybe I need , um, comfort. And then people who the same needs come together and they make art through that, or they, they express themselves through that. That would be amazing. Yeah. So

Speaker 3: 46:15

It's really mm-hmm . Yeah , go

Lisa: 46:16

Ahead. What I love what you're talking about, it's really art's superpower . It's the, you know, it's like the, it's like the essence of art. It's really a connector and a healer. Yes. And it brings people together. 'cause at Heartbreak Day, which we, you know, set up through these free art making tables, we're always like in awe of the magic. When people sit together and create, they start talking and they become best friends. We're like, wow, it happened again. It happens over and over and over these people that are so separate, but when they start like just being present, like what you're talking about, they start talking and then they're like, oh, mm-hmm <affirmative> . You're my friend, <laugh> . I wanna sit here for hours.

Speaker 3: 46:54

And you find Right. You find, like, the reason I love the idea of doing it in a community is that your, your feelings are becoming acknowledged, right. Because you put 'em up , you're bri , you're cur , you're courageous enough to do that, which in itself can be scary. Right? Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative> . But then you have someone else acknowledge it. Right. And acknowledgement is a really big source of like, healing, right? Yeah. When you're, when you're feeling your feelings for the first time, right. You don't wanna feel shame for them or anything like that. But if you have the community just there to acknowledge it, that in itself would be incredible. But then to even move forward and, and connect resources would be absolutely incredible, right. Because then people could feel that power of giving to that community that they're part of. Mm-hmm . And that in itself is a powerful thing to, 'cause you feel united. Right?

Stacie: 47:53

Exactly.

Speaker 3: 47:54

And you , you don't feel separated. You , you then you feel like, oh, we are in this together. Right. We are an actual community. Mm-hmm . We don't have to walk parallel with each other. We can like actually hold hands, right. And do this mm-hmm <affirmative> . Um , wow . Yeah. I think that's what like, I mean, that's what I love to do with art is just like, remind people of the things that they've forgotten, right? Is that we're , we are all, we are all connected and we all do depend on each other, whether we wanna admit it or not. Uh, we do, you know?

Stacie: 48:30

Yeah . And do you see how it transcends the, you know, the isms, you know, it transcends sexism, racism, transphobia, you know, liberalism and all the isms. Because the fact of the matter is, like you said, we are all ones. So regardless of who voted for who, you know, right . Those things that are really polarizing, those polarizing factors, you know, when you get down to a question like this, which is just so, it transcends all of that because even people who voted differently from us, they, they have needs, yes , they did. That there's something that they need that they thought, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative> . That going one way or the other would solve, you know, and so getting to the actual need is it , it transcends the actual whatever the action is that they took. Because we can all, it's almost like when, I remember when I was working in , in addiction treatment, and I remember someone said that , um, you know, alcoholism is a misguided attempt at enlightenment. Hmm .

Speaker 3: 49:27

Interesting. Wow.

Stacie: 49:29

So yeah, it's deep , right? Because what a person is really seeking when they're using, right? Yeah . Oftentimes connection, right? Trying to get , trying to transcend, I'm trying to be , have this transcendent experience. So what I'm needing is connection. I'm needing to connect or to feel something deeper or to transcend pain or something like that. Now, my, the means in which I meet that need may be questionable, right ? That's a question of that . That's probably not the best way to meet that need, but it doesn't change the fact that the need is there. Yeah. Right? Right . So I , you're still gonna have that need. So people can feel like they have these needs and they may not, they may make the wrong, wrong or questionable choices in order to meet that need, but it doesn't change the fact , right? That there's, that need is still there. So if we're in community and we, we connect to what is the essence, right? Of what's really underneath everything, then, and, and that presents itself as what I really need. I need safety. Some people just need to feel safe, and they're making decisions based upon the fact that they feel like certain candidates or certain situations will help to bring them safety. You know? And then, and then what I would do with those people is we would do a safety workshop and say, okay, well what is safety ?

Speaker 3: 50:46

Yeah, yeah. What

Stacie: 50:47

Does that really mean to you? Can you really be safe dependent upon external factors? Right? So then you get deeper and you start to really unpack what a , what , what , what those needs are and what they really mean . And it's always gonna take people back to their childhood. It's always gonna take people back to unmet needs, because most of our needs that are the loudest are the ones that weren't met when we were a child. Yeah . And that's, that's when it gets, like, when you get this oral borrow sneaky tail uhhuh , because it's like, oh wait, the things that I need are the things that I didn't get met when I was a child. And then maybe someone even called me needy.

Speaker 3: 51:25

Oh yeah .

Lisa: 51:26

Wow . Wow. So ,

Stacie: 51:28

Um , that's shame. So now, so now we have shame charged on having a regular primal core need that we all have as human beings. But now shame is attached to it because someone has called you needy. And this happens a lot with attachment, right? When people are show up in relationships and all of a sudden you have all these needs from your partner and the person calls you needy. And it's like, no, neediness is an unmet need. Screaming. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 51:57

Right? Yeah.

Stacie: 51:59

Yeah. So, so I , so I , but instead I get shamed for having this need that's unmet. So there's, so this is why this is so powerful to really get people to be able to step into what they need and claim it and actually have a reparative experience in community, right. With that need actually being met, you know, without the shame. Yeah . And then it can repair something from, even from childhood that may not have been, but that may not have been met even back then. So it's very powerful. This question.

Speaker 3: 52:34

It's

Lisa: 52:34

Super powerful. In your workbook, do you have that like Um, I think, well, where can people get your workbook? I think it's needed. <laugh> right now. <laugh> . And then in your workbook, do you have a list of needs? Because for some reason, when I think of needs, I'm not, I'm not landing on anything. You know, you said safety. Mm-hmm <affirmative> . Mm-hmm <affirmative> . But do you know what I mean? I think some people are not like, what do I need? I mean, and I think there's a difference between want , you were talking about want , you know, I wanna go to , I want to go to Fiji, but what do I need?

Speaker 3: 53:02

What do you actually need? Right?

Stacie: 53:04

Mm-hmm

Lisa: 53:05

<affirmative> . Can you kind of like Right . Separate those two or give us a

Stacie: 53:09

Landing. Yeah , definitely . Landing page

Lisa: 53:10

<laugh> .

Stacie: 53:11

Yeah. I definitely, and you know, and I have some references for, you know, 'cause there are a lot of great quizzes that are out there, you know mm-hmm <affirmative> . For the core needs. And, and I think, you know, the, the main thing that I really focused in on my workbook was the, the feelings and having, being able to identify the feelings. So there's a feelings glossary, which is really important of like yeah . Ident , identifying what you feel. Um, but the needs piece is kind of, it , it's kind of woven into the, the guided practice. And , and, but you're right. And because I , because I think what happens is the mind still wants to get involved and the mind wants, you know , to be like, can you show me like a , a list of terms, you know, like, you know , kind of a thing. And there's nothing wrong with that because I think those resources are, are definitely , um, out there. One of the things I did was I took a, I took a needs quiz, you know, during the middle of the pandemic. And , um, and that was like some , just something random on the internet that I took. And that's how I found out, wait a minute, <laugh> , these are what my core needs are. So yeah , I feel like that , that , that being able to just first kind of ask the question from this kind of meditative state and notice what comes up can be so much more powerful because it's something will speak to you even if it's a color or even if it's a , a memory, you know, again, now we're getting into this back into art and, and into this , um, uh, almost interoception, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative> . Which is like this ability to feel and to sense what is needed based upon what's emerging from the body and from the heart and from internally. And that's just a different function than the mind, right? And the mind's great. Um, but I would just really encourage people to first , um, drop down in whatever way they can. Again, I have the guided practice in the book. Um, but whatever helps you to feel centered. 'cause everybody has different things. And that's part of the workbook too , is to figure out what are the things that help you to feel grounded and centered, right? Mm-hmm <affirmative> . Do you need to put your hands in the dirt? Some people need to walk, right? Yeah . Like, I don't think that everybody can sit and , you know, quiet meditation. Sometimes the energy's moving and you need to walk. And that's what people get ideas, right? Yeah . Is when you're walking. So I think whatever practice, I would say to get you into a mindfulness mindful state mm-hmm <affirmative> . And then honestly, ask that question and notice what comes up in your heart. And, and, and, and the only thing you have to do is really make sure that the mind doesn't come in and try and judge it or tear it apart. 'cause mine will be like, what? Mm-hmm . But I find that it really comes in from the heart space. That's where it really, really, really, really comes in the true need. Otherwise, you're just thinking about what you need,

Speaker 3: 55:48

You know ? Yeah . Right . Well, and also, like, you could reflect on why does my mind keep getting in the way? What's my mind trying to protect me from? What am I, to me, it feels like a fear thing, right? When your mind jumps in, it's, it's like, no, no, no. Not ready to go there. Not ready. And so you have to mm-hmm <affirmative> . You have to remind yourself. And it, to me, it is about safety. You have to remind yourself that you are safe and that there is no shame attached to whatever need comes up because it's a need. And that's primal. Mm-hmm <affirmative> . Right ? Mm-hmm <affirmative> . You know? Yeah,

Stacie: 56:17

Exactly. And then also the mind is again, wired to help to, to enrolls . So sometimes we're not giving ourselves permission to actually have our needs because we're in a role, right? Mm-hmm . Yeah . And that, and that. So we're mom or we're wife or we're a teacher, or we're, you know, nurse or we're first responders. So it's, so again, there's this hard wire that my needs are, are not important, right. Or that I don't get to have what I need. That it's not about what I need. And that's also what's happening in the mind, you know? So my, one of my favorite things is, and if you're listening to this, this is something you can try. 'cause I love doing practices that you can try , um, when, before you go into your mindfulness practice , uh, have a picture of on your phone, something that really makes you smile and brings you joy. I love baby animals. I think they're very , um, cute , easy in mm-hmm <affirmative> . Right ? Yeah . Cute . And what happens when we feel something that evokes awe or wonder Mm . Is we immediately go into our hearts, right? We can just feel it . And, and so when, I mean, go in our hearts, I mean, you can literally feel the energy go from up here where we're thinking, right? And it just moves down here and you're smiling and it's like, oh my God, look at that little baby otter. You know, like the cutest little face , you know? 'cause baby otters are really cute. I mean, all baby animals are cute, but like, otters are like super cute. So you have that feeling and, and then, and then when you, and then , and then just be there with that feeling for a moment and start to breathe into it. Do some heart math . Like start breathing into your heart and then say, what do I need? Mm-hmm <affirmative> . So ask from a ask from that place and notice that the mind isn't even involved. Yeah . You are really just asking from this. And then just notice what comes up. Mm-hmm <affirmative> . You know, that's, so that's how I would lead people into , um, answering this question of what you need. Um, and then from there, then you begin the fun part of being like, okay, if I need comfort, what are the things that bring me comfort? Right? Yeah . Maybe, maybe I just need to take that corner of my room and bring a lot of fuzzy stuff in there, right? <laugh> .

Speaker 3: 58:28

Yeah.

Stacie: 58:28

Maybe I need to get some new fuzzy slippers. Maybe I need to go to Home Goods and just get like a stole, like, you know, like a cheap, something cheap. You know? Or maybe, maybe co what makes me comfortable is trying a brand new tea going to, and getting a loose tea . You know? So it's, it , it may not be what we think it is . Yeah. Right. Because as long as we're meeting the need though, that's the most important thing. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 58:55

I love that. Beautiful. Wow. Thank you so much. Yeah , I do. I look, I feel like we need to make something happen though in the LA community. Let's do it . My brain is going all over the place with that. 'cause I think it would do a lot of good. Um, I really appreciate you talking to us today. You got my, you got my like brain going and I love that. I always love these conversations . I ,

Lisa: 59:17

I needed this conversation. <laugh> awesome . From my heart .

Stacie: 59:22

Yeah . And thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you.

Lisa: 59:25

Yeah . So , um, we'll ,

Speaker 3: 59:26

I'll , everything, yeah, we'll link to everything in our description , uh, you know, your book be , uh, because I do think that it's definitely something that would be super helpful right now, all the time really. And your website , all that stuff so everybody can check it out. Um, and yeah , uh, thank you so much.

Stacie: 59:43

Thank you all so much. And I'll send you the link in an email so you can have it to the workbook and, you know, just, just, just sending so much love and you know, support out to everyone. And you know, the most important thing I can just say is just, you know, be gentle with yourself. Like, this is not a time to try and power through , um, anything. Just be very, very gentle. Whatever you hear about what you need when you ask that question, it is what it is. You know, just, it's all right. Um, and as my favorite , uh, one of my favorite teachers says , uh, don't use what you find out about yourself, against yourself. Oh,

Lisa: 1:00:20

Wow. Sweet.

Speaker 3: 1:00:20

I do love that .

Stacie: 1:00:21

Whatever , whatever, whatever comes up, you know, don't be like, I should have known that. And how did it ? Nope . It's all awareness. It's all learning.

Lisa: 1:00:30

I love that. I do that too . Really powerful Art is power. <laugh>.

Stacie: 1:00:35

Yes . Beautiful . Absolutely. Thank you . Thank you all so much. Have a wonderful day. I appreciate you having me. Yeah , you too.